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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,682 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,682 Likes: 1 |
I used Reloder 22, Magnum, and IMR 7828, H1000. Magnum worked the best, lowest pressure with most velocity and best groups. Still, mid 70's is way too high for me. But for some, that's just getting started good ! Thanks for the intel Charlie. For the initial shot, it seems too easy to neck up to 30 and then false shoulder them. This is how I do it, as well. Yep. Simple solution.
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,488
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2018
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Smallfry; Sounds like you need a Bergara B14 in Hunter or Ridge. They have 24" barrels. Mod 700 Clone, good rifles. They certainly are. My son uses a 7mm Rem Mag Bergara. Excellent accuracy. I worked up a fast load with IMR 8133 (discontinued now doggone it) and the Hornady 150 gr ELD-X. Really nice accuracy and flat shooting too. Guy
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485 |
I've always been a big fan of 7mm's, the first deer rifle I ever bought was a 700 Mtn Rifle in .280. Since then, I've added 7mm TCU's, 7x57's, 7mm-08's, and a couple 7mm Rem Mag. Haven't gotten too interested in the newer PRC cartridges, just don't offer me anything I couldn't do with a Rem Mag (or even a .280 for that matter). Only reason for a new 7, IE the PRC is the inherent accuracy. The 7 Rem Mag over the years has consistently been known to throw weird flyers at long range. Not often, but often enough to make one leery of using it if you shoot it to its ability. Nothing much new on speeds is going to come. Powders are basically the best they can be. Bullet shapes are the best. Now the case vs burn to get the inherent accuracy can be shape, powder column, percentage full, and then how the reamer is designed. The only way we get more speed anymore is by going larger and shorten barrel life or run up pressure like the sig fury thing. As to factory speeds, thats been known that they inflate for the most part. I never buy assuming I can get to whats advertised.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,915 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,915 Likes: 2 |
My other immediate thought is his discussion on COAL of the various cartridges. He claims all of them are "handicapped" because of 3.34" COAL. He opines they reach their full potential at 3.6 or 3.7 COAL. Using a modified Homer Powley spreadsheet, the difference in case capacity in a 7 RM between 3.34 and 3.6 COAL using a Nosler 175 ABLR is 4.3 grains. Using Homer's speed calculation, which I modified a bit to match actual velocities, this difference is 38 ft/sec. Using 3.7 COAL, the differences are 5.9 grains increase case capacity and 52 ft/sec. And I'm not aware if a Rem M700 can actually contain a 3.7 COAL in its mag. Maybe, I've never tried it and its been 15+ years since I owned a Rem 700.
I'm all about maximizing case efficiency but I'm not sure I'd sweat those differences. The 700 has been chambered for many long action cartridges including 7mm STW, 300 H&H, 300 Wea.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,915 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,915 Likes: 2 |
"Just don't try to blow smoke up someones azz by saying the belt is a problem on a cartridge" - well, they actually are! They headspace on the belt, not the preferred shoulder and they take up space in the magazine and "can" impede feeding from said mag. I have no plans to sell my 7mm RM but when lots of $$$ (at least for me) is on the line for a new build, I chose the 7 PRC. I have several belted mags in the safe, including 7mm STW, two 7 RM, and a 264 Win mag. NONE of them headspace on the belt.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,915 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,915 Likes: 2 |
That's what I'd rather not need to do. I would also rather not need to. It is not just belted mags which get false shoulders formed on virgin brass. I prefer to and often buy brass which needs necked down before use.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,507
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
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That's what I'd rather not need to do. I would also rather not need to. It is not just belted mags which get false shoulders formed on virgin brass. I prefer to and often buy brass which needs necked down before use. I’m with you. I’ve just seen the worst headspace and case head stretch on belted cases.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 350
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2004
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For another potential heartbreaker, measure a factory load for your favorite belted mag with your comparitor and then measure the same case after you fire it. (Helps if you use the same comparitor.) I have seen some high dollar rifles with really long chambers, from the belt to the shoulder. Not much of a problem if one shoots and then leaves the brass on the ground. One of the newer premium brass guys was making 300 Win and I believe 7MM Rem brass with a bit longer base to shoulder measurement to address this.
Elevation is math Windage is Voodoo
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,472
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,472 |
When I started handloading for a belted magnum, I picked up a Wilson headspace gauge. The gauges for belted cartridges are adjustable. Take a fired (1x or 2x) unsized brass and adjust the gauge to that brass. Voila, there is your chamber blueprint (at least close enough) to adjust your die so you headspace on the shoulder.
Yeah, yeah hear it all the time about no big deal loading for belted brass, but given a choice, no thanks. No choice? Sure, no problem.
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is. dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box. Italian Proverb
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304 |
That's what I'd rather not need to do. I would also rather not need to. It is not just belted mags which get false shoulders formed on virgin brass. I prefer to and often buy brass which needs necked down before use. I’m with you. I’ve just seen the worst headspace and case head stretch on belted cases. Same here. 300 Wins and 7 Rem's from my little corner. Once I was learned to neck em up one caliber and size to fit, stretch and such has mostly become a thing of past.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304 |
For another potential heartbreaker, measure a factory load for your favorite belted mag with your comparitor and then measure the same case after you fire it. (Helps if you use the same comparitor.) I have seen some high dollar rifles with really long chambers, from the belt to the shoulder. Not much of a problem if one shoots and then leaves the brass on the ground. One of the newer premium brass guys was making 300 Win and I believe 7MM Rem brass with a bit longer base to shoulder measurement to address this. Peterson makes long brass I believe.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 863 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 863 Likes: 1 |
Yep, they do. Seen it for sale just recently.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,702
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,702 |
Should be an interesting video. My take on the 7prc is that unless you want to shoot the heaviest highest BC match type bullets (eldm) for hunting it is nothing special compare to other 7mms. With hunting bullets - whether thicker jacket cup and core, tougher bonded bullets, or monos (even the new high bc like TA ir ablr) there is not much gain over cartridges with other advantages. I personally have no interest in using that type of bullef for hunting but for those that do and need the utmost precision at extreme range the 7prc looks great.
Several popular podcasters/influencers will droll over the BC of the 180 eldm and use that in all their ballistic comparisons with similar rounds then say use the cx load for elk hunting. While the BC of the 160 cx is high for a mono the 7prc there is not much if any gap over even on paper over lots of other stuff. Probably in the genius of hornady marketing. Sell the sizzle, not the steak
Lou
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,840
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,840 |
"Just don't try to blow smoke up someones azz by saying the belt is a problem on a cartridge" - well, they actually are! They headspace on the belt, not the preferred shoulder and they take up space in the magazine and "can" impede feeding from said mag. I have no plans to sell my 7mm RM but when lots of $$$ (at least for me) is on the line for a new build, I chose the 7 PRC. I have several belted mags in the safe, including 7mm STW, two 7 RM, and a 264 Win mag. NONE of them headspace on the belt. "I have several belted mags in the safe, including 7mm STW, two 7 RM, and a 264 Win mag". If you had a 7mm PRC, you wouldn't need the STW, RM or WM :-)
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 863 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 863 Likes: 1 |
And if you have a 30/06 you don’t need any of them
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,488
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2018
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And if you have a 30/06 you don’t need any of them Shhhhh.... Guy
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,418
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
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I think the reason to buy the 7mm PRC is accuracy (hopefully), good factory ammo and maybe a cartridge that will be easier to load without some of the things for which the 7mm RM a reputation.
I don't have extensive experience with the 7mm RM. With that said, I've never gotten great velocities or accuracy with the few I've played with so have quickly lost interest. Regarding the .30-06, I've never gotten accuracy that met my expectation and that over dozens of rifles I've tried, though I do have an AI that meets my expectations. A 30-06 that is accurate with most loads is the holy grail and about as easy to find.
Those about .30-06 ballistic of the 7mm PRC (and 7mm Rem Mag) are for my hunting, pretty much perfection for much of all big game. I have high hopes for my PRC but need to spend more time wringing it out.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304 |
And if you have a 30/06 you don’t need any of them You’d go nuts….
Semper Fi
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,536
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,536 |
My experiences with 7mms are pretty limited. I have had one 7 mm mag that had a lot of pressure excursion issues and never really gave velocities close to 7 mag performance. without questionable loads. Only load it shot consistently accurate nad with out any pressure issues was with H870 and 160s . On the flip side, my 7x57 is two shots for two elk and never not ready to go hunting.................
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,840
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,840 |
My experiences with 7mms are pretty limited. I have had one 7 mm mag that had a lot of pressure excursion issues and never really gave velocities close to 7 mag performance. without questionable loads. Only load it shot consistently accurate nad with out any pressure issues was with H870 and 160s . On the flip side, my 7x57 is two shots for two elk and never not ready to go hunting................. If I still handloaded I'd have to have a 7x57 again!
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