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Joined: Sep 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,202 Likes: 18 |
Other biological factors in the size of mule deer (including antlers) is that during the Great Depression there were plenty of drought years, along with plenty of subsistence poaching. Consequently the numbers of mule deer were at a low point--until WWII, when a lot of hunters were otherwise occupied.
After the war the general climate in the West was wetter, and mule deer populations increased due to more browse. They also reproduce quicker than elk, does generally having two young, versus one calf per elk. This is partly why mule deer populations rose rapidly after the war. But even after soldier/hunters returned, there weren't nearly as many as there are today. As a result, bucks had more good feed--and less hunting pressure. Thus they grew bigger, and older. In fact, some states (such as Colorado) allowed hunters two bucks a year.
Eventually elk populations started rising--and it's been demonstrated more than once in various studies that larger elk populations tend to result in fewer mule deer. And elk populations continue to increase in much of the West, partly due to more of 'em spending more time on private land, where hunting pressure is lower.
All of which is why so many huge-antlered mule deer were killed in the 1960s era--and fewer 30" bucks (or however you want to measure antlers) are taken these days on public land, or even private. Thanks John, Years ago, '99 or so, I went to a conference here in NorCal. F&G guys showed some interesting pictures of the local landscapes and the changes in the mosaic pattern of forest/brush/open areas. Folks were wondering what had happened to all the nice big dear they used to shoot. Open and brushy areas were more prevalent back in the pre and post War years do to forestry practices and large fires that weren't controlled early like they are now. What were once mixed plant communities had turned into large sections of second growth forest and really thick brush with fewer open areas for forbs and other feed to grow. Great cover areas, but little for inducing growth of herds or antlers. Unfortunately, the conditions here have led to some rather large wildfires in the past decade or two. I imagine the openings caused by them will help some with the deer populations............assuming the unhunted lions and the invading wolves don't keep numbers down.
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,629
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,629 |
Other biological factors in the size of mule deer (including antlers) is that during the Great Depression there were plenty of drought years, along with plenty of subsistence poaching. Consequently the numbers of mule deer were at a low point--until WWII, when a lot of hunters were otherwise occupied.
After the war the general climate in the West was wetter, and mule deer populations increased due to more browse. They also reproduce quicker than elk, does generally having two young, versus one calf per elk. This is partly why mule deer populations rose rapidly after the war. But even after soldier/hunters returned, there weren't nearly as many as there are today. As a result, bucks had more good feed--and less hunting pressure. Thus they grew bigger, and older. In fact, some states (such as Colorado) allowed hunters two bucks a year.
Eventually elk populations started rising--and it's been demonstrated more than once in various studies that larger elk populations tend to result in fewer mule deer. And elk populations continue to increase in much of the West, partly due to more of 'em spending more time on private land, where hunting pressure is lower.
All of which is why so many huge-antlered mule deer were killed in the 1960s era--and fewer 30" bucks (or however you want to measure antlers) are taken these days on public land, or even private. John My grand father told me as a teenager herding cattle at their ranch near Austin Nevada around 1900, he and his brother saw a Mule Deer doe. They didn't know what it was so a whip and spur pursuit was under taken, to no avail. They never saw another Mule Deer for several years. This was near the Table Mountain, an area famous for big Mule Deer in the 1960's, and is now a wilderness area. In the 1950's and 1960's the Mule Deer .population had exploded. In the 1960's when I started hunting deer it was not unusual to see 200 or 300 deer in a day. While hunting in northern Nevada we would glass 25 or 30 quality bucks every morning while archery hunting. Five years ago I hunted this same area for a week and saw one fork horn buck. In the 1980's the Mule Deer Population declined at an alarming rate. We draw for tags on Nevada, no OTC tags, and one is lucky to draw a tag every 4 or 5 years. I can't really say what caused this decline. Predators, hunting pressure, habitat, or just general decline of Mule Deer though out the West. In the 1960's hunters Nevada harvested over 30,00 deer every year. Now the total harvest is under 4000 per year, which my be part of the problem. The Nevada Dept of Wildlife has no idea how many Mountain Lion we have and coyote, which were a topic of conversation if one was seen, when dinner came around at the ranch are now a daily pack sightings are seen daily.
Last edited by Switch; 02/27/24.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177 |
Desert mule deer generally live in the low hills, mountains and lowlands of the Southwest. They seldom truly migrate. Rocky Mountain deer tend to be bigger of body with a potential because of larger skeletal systems to produce more massive and larger antlers. Around 20 years ago I killed a free-range Sonora buck with a 29-1/2" outside spread, which "grossed" a little over 190 B&C. After weighing a bunch of other mule deer bucks over the years on the accurate freight scale in my garage, I guessed the buck's field-dressed weight at around 160-170 pounds. Agree 100% Mule Deer. I've killed two mature Sonora bucks, and both were about that same body weight. The big whitetails we kill in the TX Panhandle not too far from OK/KS are a little bigger than the Sonora buck I've seen. You can generally take what MartinStrummer says and divide it by 2 and be closer to the actual truth. JG, Here are the photos of the two largest-antlered Sonora bucks my buddies and I took in 2004. It's quite apparent that the bodies are relatively small, especially compared to bucks farther north--but they have big ears! My buck, as mentioned earlier, had a 29-1/2" outside spread. The other buck (held by Oswaldo Arrizon, the younger brother of the outfitter, who I believe is now the outfitter) had a 31" spread. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/248891.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/248892.jpg) You were hunting a hell of a ranch and Felizardo is a great guy. Still in business and still killing big deer. I'm assuming you were hunting the family place and not one of the leases
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,149 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,149 Likes: 11 |
Yep, the family place.
I'd seen another buck with antlers just about the same size as the one I got maybe half an hour before, but didn't get a shot at him....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,110
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,110 |
Back to the subject/deer in the OP, is it just me or do some of these big muleys with their antler structure almost resemble whitetails as much or more than they do "classic" mule deer? I guess I am talking about the lengths of the two beams at the first fork. I get the typical/non-typical distinction. I am not considering ear, coat, and tail distinctions... I would definitely call it a MD based on those morphological distinctions.
I know MD can and do "hybridize" where the ranges overlap but still not as often as one might think. Obviously whitetails/Coues in Mexico where this was taken. Is that what I am seeing in these particular antlers?
Beautiful, impressive regardless.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,149 Likes: 11 |
Thought you might like to see this group photo: ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/249255.jpg)
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,258 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,258 Likes: 6 |
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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