Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires Saw a couple nice rifles today

One full stocked CZ was damn nice, but expensive ($900.00). Correction, $995.99!!!!!!! Fuuuuuck that!!!


The trainer (CZ 452) was $399.99, and I almost bought it. However, the rifle I really wanted was an old Winchester model 320. That was a very nice rifle, that looked very similar to a pre 64 model 70. Felt almost like it in the hands too. It was set up with an aperture front sight, and looked like it used to wear a rear aperture, but it was missing. It still had the rear ramp sight on it though. I damned near walked out with that one today. It was priced high, at $399.99, but I could have got it for less.

Check out this old ammo I found:


The RWS Dynamit Nobel target, and Lapua Midas L, looks pretty old. Kind of cool to find old ammo like this. The Federal gold medal target was thrown in for good measure at $35.00/brick. I've always liked Federal rimfire ammo, so it's likely going to shoot well for me. We will soon see!!!

Another surprise was when I went to Scheels:

It was nice to see all the choices of Eley ammo. I bought 2 boxes of the "Semi automatic benchrest outlaw". I've never heard of the stuff and wanted to try it out. The only downfall was the price tag at $10.99/box. So, if you guys get desperate, they may have some 22lr ammo you could get to try out..


I have a question about the Winchester model 320 though. Who has them, and what do you think of them? I know they are probably overlooked, as we don't hear much about them here. This rifle looked like it was built well and probably a sleeper. It felt great in the hands. Now I wish I would have bought it. Probably could have got it for $370.00, but that price may still be high??? Any opinions on this rifle would be much appreciated. Thanks!!!

Here's one history:

From:
https://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2007/03/winchester-model-320.html

The guns are supposedly very similar to the Kimber Model 82 rifles as the actions were made by the folks who later started Kimber, Omark (Sportco) in Australia. The action was originally designed and built by Jack Warne who sold out to Omark and then moved to the USA to start up Kimber Arms. I used to hear these describe as a poor man's Kimber (which sold for over $500 new or 10 times the cost of the 320). They share the same magazines with those for the 320 being with plastic rather than the aluminum followers.


Bruce

Thanks Bruce. I appreciate that!! That's just a sexy rifle, as far as I'm concerned. But I like Winchester model 70's too..Thanks for the article. It was a good read. Now I'm wondering when the rifle was made, that I was looking at today!!! Probably 1974. Knowing my luck..

The Winchester 320 was the rifle the Kimber 82 was designed from . They are very similar and 320 magazines will usually (but not always) work in Kimber 82 rifles. At $399 it is actually a pretty good price- the last few I've seen have been around $600-$750 or so. They usually have fairly plain wood on them, but it is usually pretty straight grained and stable. Should be a good shooter .

Thanks buddy. I appreciate that info! I didn't know they were bringing that much. I know you like RWS ammo, have you ever seen or used that ammo I have pictured? I am going to save the box, after I shoot it. The Lapua Midas L is pretty old too. Wondering if it's from the 80's??

I owned a 320 In the late 80s. I was also an "early adopter" of the Kimbers buying a brand new m82 22LR Classic in the Spring of 1981. It was in the serial number 1100 range. The stock on it was one of the last built for Kimber by EC Bishop in Mo before Kimber started making their own.

I got lucky with my 320. A pawnshop in OKC (that was normally way overpriced on their guns) had a near mint Winchester 320 sitting in the used rack for $65- which was dirt cheap even back then. It was that cheao because it did not have a magazine and they had no idea where to source another. I knew the design heritage of the gun and knew they used Kimber mags. I had a Kimber 82 magazine at home , so I bought it. It was a neat lightweight little rifle. It was also pretty accurate . About a year later a dealer freind who collected Winchester rimfires offered me 3 times what I paid for it about as he had never seen a 320 come through his shop.


The Sportco connection to the Winchester 320 is correct. Winchester bought the actions directly from Sportco snd I think they were marked "made in Australia" undeneath the action. I think that Winchester actually bought only the actions.The 310/320s were barrelled and stocked here.

The familly connection between Sportco and Kimber (The Warne family) is also very real . Calling the Winchester 320 "a poor mans Kimber" however , is pretty silly if you compare them side by side.

Th only parts the 320 and the Kimber 82 share in common is the forward portion of the bolt design and the magazine.

Everything else on the Kimber 82 is different and substantially upgraded.

Thr M82 reciever is quite a bit thicker(Same diameter as a Win 52, I believe) and it has two locking lugs like a Winchester n52/ ,Anshutz 54/ CZ 452. The m320 only has one lug like the CZ 457

The m82 trigger and safety design is much more sophisticated as well.

All that being said though, the little Winchester 320 I owned shot about as well as any Kimber 82 sporter I owned shooting equivilent quality ammo. It was a good little gun.

That full stock CZ is nice. I had a chance at a 320 a couple years ago but someone got to it first. That price may have been a bit high but probably not by much these days. One sold with a number of bids on GB at 295 but it had a little pitting/ rust on the barrel. Nice looking 22s

A lot of great info guys. I appreciate it!! I found an old Winchester rimfire rifle ad, and they said the 320 was "patterned to resemble the model 70". I thought It looked very similar. Now, I love my Winchester model 52 sporter, but this rifle seemed more familiar for a reason:

BSA - under $400 for a 320 today would be a pretty good price for one in good plus condition. I have one and it’s a decent rifle and accurate (I really haven’t put it through its paces - i.e. different ammo) but I’m thinking it could be very accurate? I have some of that old Midas L left over from a 2000s purchase (different box than what you have) but I’m not sure if it was from then or even a little earlier? Many of my .22s loved that stuff! Also I was wrong on your Federal ammo - that’s Federal’s 900B - excellent ammo (not the UM1/UM22 I was thinking of) - you can get 800 rounds of it on Gunbroker right now for a mere $320🥴

I’m also beginning to think you might have a “problem” with gun shops😄……..and i should know🤔!!!

PennDog

I buy every bit of Lapua Midas L and Multi-match L (Red Box) I can find , My 52D loves it and wins me matches if I do my part.
The L stands for .001 oversize the standard bullet !
The CZ 452 and the Winchester 320 would have both come home with me if I had seen them.
Rich

Mighty specialized inventory for a gun shop in Eastern Nevada. Or, was it somewhere else?

I recognize those hang tags BSA- that’s a great shop with a nice inventory.

Hell yes. You and your brother recognize those hang tags. It's a great shop. There are some real gems in there at times, as you know.

Ha ha. Yes I definitely have a problem.


As for the Federal ammo. That is some I found yesterday. It is different than the Federal Gold Medal Match stuff I posted the other day. So the new stuff is 900B? The old stuff was made in '92, but I have not looked at the box to see if it had the markings on it like you guys said it would. I should do that, but have been busy running around. Put 400 miles on the car yesterday!! Uggghh..

I did a little research, and found the 900 on the box of the old Federal ammo, and 711B on the stuff I bought yesterday, so I guess that answers some questions. I think I did alright at $35/brick of the new Federal target ammo, although, through some research, heard it does not shoot as well as the 900B (older stuff).

Thanks Rich. The funny thing about the CZ is I could have bought one a few months ago for $360.00. Maybe even a little less, if I would have thrown them an offer. That was at a different shop. That shop also had an old BRNO model 2 heavy target rifle for the same price ($360.00). I did a little research on those, and I guess they have a huge following and they are pretty rare. Selling for upwards of $1,000.00. I didn't need another target rifle though, but I bet that baby would shoot!!! I may head back in a couple days and check on the Winchester, as that rifle was really calling my name!! Even though there were a couple things that were not original on the rifle. It had an extra sling attachment, and it also had the front target sight. Those things don't scare me off though, as it's a rifle I'd definitely use.

Sounding more like South Reno. I know a place there where I’m sure I paid for their vacation home, over the years.

The RWS Nobel is some pretty old ammo, but should be very good ammo. I have some newer RWS Rifle Match and it is about the most accurate ammo I've ever shot (too cheap to buy Eley or Lapua) . My Kimber and Winchesters love the stuff. I wish I had bought a lot more when it was on sale.

I had some of the older Federal Gold Medal Target and it was awesome ammo. Very accurate- on par with some Eley and the RWS and extremely clean shooting. Once it was gone I bought some of the newer manufactured stuff and it isn't nearly as good. Kind of like the old Winchester Power Point ammo. The early stuff in the silver boxes was amazing ammo- as accurate as most of the target ammo I was buying, but the hollow point was amazing on critters. The new PP ammo made here in the US is acceptable for hunting ammo, but not nearly as accurate as the Australian produced stuff.

Looks like you've found a real treasure trove of gun shops down there. Funny, we are going the other direction around here. Hard to find a decent gunshop around here any more...

BSA…don’t get your hopes up too high with that federal target. It’s mediocre at best, but I rekkon you’ll wring the most out of it for sure

The RWS Nobel is some pretty old ammo, but should be very good ammo. I have some newer RWS Rifle Match and it is about the most accurate ammo I've ever shot (too cheap to buy Eley or Lapua) . My Kimber and Winchesters love the stuff. I wish I had bought a lot more when it was on sale.

I had some of the older Federal Gold Medal Target and it was awesome ammo. Very accurate- on par with some Eley and the RWS and extremely clean shooting. Once it was gone I bought some of the newer manufactured stuff and it isn't nearly as good. Kind of like the old Winchester Power Point ammo. The early stuff in the silver boxes was amazing ammo- as accurate as most of the target ammo I was buying, but the hollow point was amazing on critters. The new PP ammo made here in the US is acceptable for hunting ammo, but not nearly as accurate as the Australian produced stuff.

Looks like you've found a real treasure trove of gun shops down there. Funny, we are going the other direction around here. Hard to find a decent gunshop around here any more...

I recognize the RWS Target. I have a brick of it left from a case I bought back in the late 70's or early 80's. It always shot quite well in all my rimfires back then. I would buy the Target, The Subsonic, and R50 by the case back then. The RWS subsonic I would use for Squirrel hunting, but also discovered that my S&W 41 loved it, so I shot it in competition in the model 41. I still have over a brick of the subsonic and R50 from those days. Wasn't sure how the newer RWS Subsonic would shoot but it's just as good as it always has been.

I’m easily confused and find myself pondering when Federal made the Gold Medal Target ammo numbered 711B. Apparently it is over a span of many years. In 2005 I bought a Kimber 82 Government from the CMP. Almost certainly in that same year I bought several different brands of ammo to test. A 50 round box of Gold Medal Target shot best, so I bought a brick. I haven’t shot the rifle much and still have a few boxes. The label looks a lot like the brick box in BSA’s photo. The end of the box shows “711B.” Yesterday I picked up different 22 ammo at my local Cabela’s, including Federal Gold Medal Target. The box labeling is entirely different, but the end also shows “711B.” One would assume this is all the same? It will be several weeks before I will shoot any of this and do a comparison. But I wouldn’t win any benchrest competitions, so my results may not be completely determinative.

711B has gone through many iterations (labeling) I have no idea if it is the “same”……what I do know is that some of the lots made in the 90s was very good when they went to the ones in the labeling like BSA has I never had much luck with it (some rifles shot it pretty well but overall not nearly as well as the “earlier” stuff). Recently I tried some of the newer labeled 711B and initially - with a very small sample size - I am encouraged?!! 900B has always shot extremely well and only wish I would have bought cases of the stuff when I had the chance - but I could say that about a bunch of different .22 ammo over the last 5 decades🥴!!

PennDog

p.s. Really liked that shirt BSA!

Great info guys. I had fun at the range today. Burned up 300 rounds of ammo, with 3 rifles. Not going to win any benchrest competitions with any of these rifles either, but they aren't made to win benchrest. They are damn good sporters though:





Boy, that CZ did not like the RWS ammo!!!!


The Elite 22s (stainless 10/22 clone) really likes it though. While the Winchester 52 sporter surprised me a few times with some great groups, the CZ 457 American really surprised me with how smooth it is.

Here's how I'd rate them:

Reliability:
1. CZ 457 American
2. Winchester model 52 sporter
3. TI Elite 22S

Best trigger:
1. 52 sporter felt the best, the Volquartsen in the 10/22 and the CZ felt similar.

Smoothest feeding:
1. CZ 457 American
2. 52 Sporter
3. Elite 22S

Most stable feeling:
1. Elite 22S (probably due to using bi-pod)

The one that surprised me the most today: CZ 457 American... While it did not win against the other 2, in terms of accuracy, it made up for it in the smooth reliable feeding and how it felt in the bags..

Of course, the Model 52 wins the sexiest contest, and it also shot the best group averages.. @ .642 and .639" with the Lapua Midas "L", and Wolf Match Extra..

Try setting the action screws on the CZ to 30"lbs. then try the RWS again. I have not shot any RWS Target in quite some time and should try it in my CZ, but it does like the RWS Subsonic very well.
My experience is if a rifle is not pillared nor bedded, action screw torque has a big affect on accuracy with different types of ammo. Once they are pillared and bedded, action screw torque is as important. I would not have much confidence in plastic pillars ability of keeping the wood from crushing, the sole purpose of using pillars. A slight amount of give in the wood means the screw torque has changed followed by the accuracy.
Until you brought it up today I had forgotten about having the RWS Target ammo. LOL

As you know, they have pillars. Even though they are plastic. I don't mess with action screw torque on any of my rifles. When you going to shoot your rifle? It's pretty obvious the CZ doesn't like the RWS ammo. It shoots other ammo much better. That's the thing with these rifles. Find what they like and stick with it.. The rifle sits in the stock pretty good. I have checked to make sure it's sitting on the pillars well, and it does not teeter, or squish the wood. I'd be able to feel that. If it exhibited some weird POI shifts, or a lot of fliers, I'd be concerned. It may end up getting glass bedded eventually.

At what distance were you shooting those targets?

I learned to torque action screws years back when an old friend, a railroad engineer and former Camp Perry shooter, taught me how to make a rimfire accurate. He loved my KDF's and boy I wish he was still with us. He was such a natural with anything firearm.
Both CZ stocks I've had my action mounted in show metal touching wood in the action and barrel chamber area and that was even with the original stock mine came in from the factory, so no matter the action screw tightness mine show the plastic pillars are letting the metal touch wood.
Like I posted earlier, at 20"lbs, close to factory setting, mine would shoot RWS worth beans, but loved the Norma Subs. When the screws were tightened to 30"lbs. it would shoot the Norma subs worth beans, but really shined with the RWS subs. In the factory issued stock, the action would slightly move after 20"lbs. but in the other American stock I have it began just above 30"lbs.
If you are happy with the plastic pillars that's great, as they say, to each there own.
If the weather (and work) would cooperate I would do a more shooting. I'm satisfied with this CZ, a Kimber or KDF K22 it is not. I like seeing how much I can improve the accuracy of a rifle, so this one gives me lots to work with. The Kimber or the KDF didn't. LOL The only improvement I made on the 2 Sako's I have is the trigger spring, nothing else was needed to improve accuracy.
I really want to get both CZ stocks stripped, reoiled, pillars replaced and glass bedded, but life keeps getting in the way. I foolishly thought that being semi retired would give me more time to do those things.

Here's some older rimfire ammo.

Yep, look at the prices. 😉

Funny, I ran across a fs like that one for 600, this was before covid. I had a trainer like the one under it and sold it probably too cheap at 350, went the same day. Anyway, took that money and went and bought the FS.

399 is a fair price for a 320, I think I paid 300 for mine, I've seen them go on GB in the 600 range. One of the most accurate 22s I own. They take kimber mags. Dealer had a 310 the week before and I didn't buy it due to it being a single shot, I went back for it though and it was gone but the 320 was in its place.

I owned a Winchester 320 for many years and it’s still in the family. I found the 320 in my favorite pawn shop on the Rez here in Mississippi and traded a Remington 510 that I had $18 in and $15 boot money. I recognized quality and liked having a magazine. I used to shoot 3 position small bore in ARNG and squirrel hunt only with 22s. Traded my son his CZ 452 Trainer for it. He had used the 320 through out his childhood and the CZ was too heavy for his tastes. The CZ was marginally more accurate. The CZ was right up there with the Winchester 52D I used in competition ( I was battalion champion and won 20th in the state competition way back in early 70s). Both rank right up there in my estimation with the right ammo. I also have a custom Ruger 10/22, and a Winchester 69. We appreciate fine accurate 22 rifles in this household and always have.