Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters rifle powder H414

this question probably has been asked before , is it true H414 is no long manufactured or sold anymore ? and is 760 Winchester the same thing ? i still have plenty H414 but if its no longer sold i am keeping and using H414 only for family and myself . thanks,Pete53

They are the same. Lot to lot differences is all. But why not use a powder that won’t change POI as much during temperature changes.

i have 18 lbs. of H414 and my 30-06 Winchester 70 ss shoots really nice groups with this powder over some other powders ,so i might as well use it.

Steve, vou've apparently missed at least half a dozen threads on this!

Yes, H414 and W760 are the same powder, made at the same plant. The only thing that's changed is they no longer label the containers H414, just W760.

ok thanks ,rather i like it or not H414 really shoots well in this Winchester 30-06 model 70 s.s. compared too other proven powders and because i have so much of H414 powder i am going to just use it .

H414 is/was the primary powder I used in several different calibers. My 275 Rigby loves it with just about any 140 grain bullet. I have 760 for when my meager supply of H414 is gone but haven't used any....yet.

like it or not i have many cartridge rifles H414 shoots well in for me , i do like you can volume load accurately easy too.

9 lbs left... hoping to find some "Ramshot Big Game" locally to try before i open that last 8 lb jug of H414...

Tiny groups are one thing but POI changes due to temperature changes are a magnitude difference. Do you guys that like H414 ever test where your group is when the temperature changes?
I loved the way RE26 shot in 7mm RM, 300 Win Mag and 300 Weatherby Mag close to the best or the best in each cartridge. I had not tested at different temperatures. Then MD showed how the POI changed during temperature changes.
What I had noticed with WW748, WW760 and WW785 the POI and pressure changes were significant. I wouldn’t buy the stuff if it were $5/lb.

I have only used 760 from 80 to -17 degrees, and never noticed any change of impact. Hunting not target shooting. I might never notice on animals. Now I need to do some cold weather tests. I haven't read MD's test results yet. I will look them up, he is always a good read.

^ this pretty much somes my temps i have used H414 also ^ it works for me

I published an article on the subject in Handloader or Rifle years ago, which eventually was republished with some additional infor as Chapter 10 in The Big Book of Gun Gack II, "Temperature and Rifle Powder." It shows the results with various cartridges from the .17 Hornady Hornet to .375 H& at both 70 and zero degrees Fahrenheit, and sometimes with the ammo heated to up to 115 degrees.

The biggest point-of-impact shift I've seen from 70 to zero was three inches at 100 yards, which probably wouldn't affect shooting a deer in the chest at 100 yards--but would at longer ranges, which as I relate in the article is exactly what it did on a mule deer doe at around 250 on a cold morning. Luckily, the doe was broadside facing to the right, and I aimed behind the shoulder to minimize meat destruction. But the bullet landed right in the middle of the shoulder--which is why I retested the load at zero degrees on paper a few days later and found the 3-inch shift--and also found the load lost 130 fps from 70 to zero.

But also also depends on the rifle itself. If a particular rifle, for instance, doesn't change POI much with different bullet weights, it's also not likely to shift at different temperatures. This tends to be the case in heavy-barreled rifles, especially chambered for .17-.224 varmint rounds. The only way to make sure about typical big game rifles, however, is to test them at varying temperatures.

I have yet to find such a shift in temperature-resistant powders such as the Hodgdon Extremes, and even some not advertised as temp-resistant. Most of the original Ramshot rifle powders--TAC, Big Game, Hunter and Magnum--are about as good as the Extremes, with the exception of Hunter, which usually loses about 100 fps from 70 to zero. But again, the rifle we use Hunter in most is Eileen's NULA .257 Roberts, which has a #2 Douglas barrel that's full-length bedded in the very stiff NULA stock--so POI doesn't change.

However, have yet to test any powders at 70 and at 100+ degrees that don't gain velocity at temperatures over 80, even the Hodgdon Extremes--but they don't gain as much velocity (and hence pressure) as "standard" powders. Powder compression and the primer can also make a difference.

The chapter contains a lot more detail than this post, of course. Eileen's been throwing a 25% off sale "Leap Year" on all our books since mid-February, and today is the last day. The regular price is $32.75, which like all our prices includes media-mail shipping in the U.S. The shipped sale price of Gun Gack II is around $24.50.

JB,
I just re-read Chapter 10 in Gun Gack II because of this discussion. Good article and thank you for doing the work that the rest of us benefit from. It is very helpful to see actual data rather than gun-counter conjecture.

> ok i will reread that chapter on this ,Thank you Mule Deer ,Pete53

Even though you are Debbie Downer on H414/W760 I have used it for decades with great success. I do my load development in temperatures close to where I will be using it while I am hunting and it works awesome !!!!
If you want to frown on temp sensitive powders there are much worse, such as H335 and H380.
If I am going on a big game hunt when I know the weather will be really nasty and cold I take one of my 300WM's loaded with H1000..........

Thanks!

When my writing career eventually evolved into mostly "gun writing" about 20 years ago, a lot of the articles published involved testing of long-time assumptions of various aspects of handloading and other technical stuff. I'd grown skeptical of many, so tested 'em.....

John

Might also add that's why I tend to use different powders these days. Many of the newer ones are not only more temp-resistant, but far cleaner-burning, which greatly reduces bore-fouling, including copper AND "carbon."

any good new powder for a 30-06 ? please and thank you ,Pete53