Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Turn your 2" .38 into a magnum!!

FWIW:

Kevin's best point is getting missed here:

HIT THE TARGET!

Drop a few bills on handgun training. I did. makes a world of difference.

I went here:

http://www.oregonfirearmsacademy.com/

And here:

http://www.thunderranchinc.com/

And I am a better shot and a better gunfighter for it.

When you consider the THOUSANDS we lock up in gunds tool, toys, and ammo, the money for teh classes is a pittance.

Merry Christmas,

BMT

....BMT...That's good advice!....Anyone have experience with the Glazer safety slug loads in the snubby 38's?

Olhippie:

Glasers will shoot through a pinky finger and then get lodged in the typewriter on the dorm room floor. They will not damage the floor in doing so.

A law School classmate of mine pulled this little stunt. he has not repreated the test, despite fequent requests.

Otherwise, they don't penetrate enough for social work (or so I am told).

BMT

BMT

I can back that up with first hand observation. In all my years as a paramedic, I did encounter a few people who were shot with Glaser Safety Slugs. The one incident that comes to mind was an attempted suicide that went wrong. The guy put a .45ACP under his chin and pulled the trigger. When I arrived, he was conscious, alert and in horrific pain. His entire face was puffed out like an over-filled balloon and his eyes looked like Quasimodo. But he took a contact distance Glaser and it didn�t penetrate enough to do killing damage to the brain. I suspect he�s probably somewhat of a vegetable now (although I have no idea). I did get to see the X-Ray and the bulk of the shot only made it about 1.5� with some shot extending about 4� into the cranium.

Glasers are "trick bullets" and IMHO I would not begin to trust my life or the lives of my loved ones to an unreliable bullet that depended upon some gimmick to do the work. Gimmicks often have a way of leaving you in a jam. We had quite a problem with coyotes, coons, feral canines and cats, on the farm at one time. I had bought some Glasers for my Colt Gold Cup .45 ACP and decided to see how they would perform on the raiders of my fowl stock. We had domestic chickens, turkeys, and a few ducks around the farm, as well as cattle and a horse or two. I shot quite a few critters with that .45 for a couple of years with various loads. I used a 200 gr. SWC, 230 gr. ball, 200 gr. Speer "Flying Ashtray", and several versions of the 230 gr. hollowpoint, along with the Glasers. The Glaser was the least dependable of any. On one animal they might blow the ribcage out the offside, the next the wound would be a surface crater on the entry side. I quit thinking of them as a reliable defensive alternative after seeing how radical their performance was. Now that was years back, maybe they've improved the design since. I still don't feel comfortable with anything that needs a gimmick to make it work.

Kevin & MOGC,

You guys have given most excellent advice.


Merry Christmas,


Mando

To the best of my knowledge the 9mm is prob'ly the best 2" revolver load, the faster-burning powders giving .357 equivalent ballistics out of that length barrel without the attendant flash and blast.

I'm as flash and recoil-tolerant as anyone, but I'd not want to discharge a .357 snubbie anywhere indoors without hearing protection. Especially as I could do about as well with a good .38plusP.

In that regard I'm still using the ol' "FBI" 158 grain LSWCHP PlusP load. Old habits are hard to break I guess.

Birdwatcher

Man you said it. In one test I did, I compared ballistics on a Taurus 905 to a S&W 340PD. As already mentioned, the .357 mag 125 grain bullet averaged 1140 fps. But the much less powerful 9mm average 1060 fps. True, the magnum had a velocity advantage, but look at what 80 fps costs you. Huge muzzle flash, muzzle blast and noise. With the 9mm there was very little flash, muzzle blast, but there was noise. Recoil was most certainly stiffer than any .38 Special +P but still a long way from the .357.

Coupled with full moon clips, I think 9mm is the absolute best small frame revolver round. My only complaint is there are no LW small frame revolvers made in 9mm, and most 9mm revolvers are rather heavy for their size.

Mando -

Can't go wrong with a proven load. I can't argue your choice.

Besides ammo is only a part of the equation. Hitting the boiler room is even more important.

Glaser makes standard and +p load in .38 Special.

Both are impressive on milk jugs. If you are concerned about shooting +p in your snubby, I believe the standard pressure load will do the job.

So, how much trouble would it be to take something like a S&W 442/642 and have the cylinder worked to take full-moon clips and 9x19s instead of, or in addition to .38Specials? Ditto, same same with something like a lightweight .357?

I sure wish I had gotten my hands on a S&W 940. I asked S&W if they were going to re-issue the 940. No plans to do so at present.

BMT - The Bond .410/45 is more fun than should be legal. My grandsons (14 and 9 and both mui macho) love to shoot it.

Best loads -
.45 Colt Gold Dot - accurate.
.410 Winchester 3" 000 5 pellet buckshot - hand size group
at 7 yards and best penetration of the loads I've tried.

Re the DPX next time out I'll do my wet newspaper and stack of magazine penetration test. Not very scientific but informative.

Merry Christmas.

FWIW here are a few factory loads I've chrono'd. (I have much more data for light reloads.)

Rossi 2" .357 with: 38 Special Win 125 grn JHP 860 fps
Rossi 2" .357 with: .357 mag Rem 125 grn JSP 1260 fps
S&W 360 1 7/8" .357 with: .357 mag Win 125 grn JSP 1100 fps
Kahr PM9 3" 9mm with: Fed Amer Eagle 115 grn RN 1050 fps

Not saying that those are the loads I'd choose, just what I have personally chrono'd.

The .357 S&W 360 was the most brutal gun I've ever fired, especially with the cylinder full of warm 170 JHC reloads I'd forgotten to shoot in my 686 before I sold it,... but I loved carrying that scandium 360!

Conversely, the 9mm is VERY user friendly as far as the power I get versus the recoil and muzzle flash. I now have the Kahr P9 w/ night sights instead of the PM9, as I like the feel better and it's not much bigger.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon%2038%20Special%20Ammo.htm

The California Department of Corrections used Glasers in their H&K's for over a decade. They are very conservative and dont buy "trick" anything. Still the reason they used them was to avoid penatration.

I like heavier bullets because they penatrate, and because my snub nosed 38 might have to perform other tricks besides self defense against humans.

I work at Pelican Bay State Prison, and so I live in a remote rural area and work around livestock too. I carried my snubbie to many Jr. Livestock shows because the combination of big animals and small children made it a prudent thing to do. As much as I respect Cor-bon, a 110 grain bullet isn't the ticket for that kind of scenario.

Energy is a pretty nebulous concept to hang your hat on when considering a round for your CC Weapon.

I too went to Thunder Ranch, taking my son with me. It stands out as one of the best investments I have ever made.

When I train people who want to carry pistols, I recomend using affordable ammunition so that you can practice. I honestly feel a good 158 grain semi-wadcutter lead bullet is a good choice for use in a 38 Special.

At the end of the day, bullet choice won't make anywhere near the difference as bullet placement.

If a 38 special isn't enough, what about a Charter Arms Bulldog in 44 special? Wouldn't that give more penetration and stop the bad guy quicker than a light bullet 38 loading?

The 158 grain Lead Semi Wad cutter Hollow point is a very good 38 Special load
Going to a lighter faster bullet in the 38 in order to a marginal increase in energy figures is a step in the wrong direction. The 38 is limited in its ability to penetrate with the lighter slugs (110 grains) especially and a lack of penetration is never a good thing, as Kevin Gibson pointed out with his example of the 45 ACP Glaser slug that failed to penetrate enough to be fatal in an attempted suicide.

AMEN.

BMT