Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Maybe we obsess too much

You're talking about this Eric Cortina right:



Who says at about the 6 minute mark don't worry about groups till you get your ES and SD down?

"When I'm doing powder charges, I don't even shoot at paper, I'm trying to get my loads as consistent as possible, and that's over a chronograph."

That guy?

Not 1 person I have mentioned and I know there's more who have ever said you have to have a single digit E.S. to be competive or shoot small, if they have post it here.
Have you ever been to a 1,000 yard match? Shot with some successful 1,000 shooter? or just read about it

If that isn't enough for you Google positive compensation shooting and read the thread on accurate shooter.
The late Stan Taylor talks of a 3.7" group he shot at 1,000 yard match that had an E.S. of 29. Theres lots of examples out there that reasonable double digit E.S will shoot small at 1,000.

Where is anyone here saying you need single-digit ES? Single-digit SD, maybe, but SD is very different from ES. In a Gaussian distribution, SD is approximately 1/6th of ES.

Every single Competitive shooter i know preps there brass 90% and reloads same way they do there 1,000 yard BR guns it does translate over whether you believe it or not.
Like I've said if you never shoot mostly past 100-300 the results don't show up very little. It will to some degree at 300 but very little at 100 some things more than others.
Why do you think 99% use Lapua, ADG brass, Berger or custom bullets? there is a reason.
Listen to some of these guys talk about how 5 years ago what they shot in the top 5 will be in the bottom 5 today, there's always room for improvement you just gotta be willing and open your mind up what you were doing 5 years ago isn't as good as you were doing.
Arguing about the use of components is an excuse like I posted above questions and seeking help is free.

This article shares all the details of how a two-time Precision Rifle Series (PRS) champion loads his match ammo – from what equipment he uses to the individual steps and order of his process. First, let me introduce Austin Orgain: Austin was the PRS Overall Season Champion in both 2020 and 2021, and has the highest total accumulated PRS points over the past 7 years. He was also the 2017 National Rifle League (NRL) Season Champion and won the 2020 AG Cup. If you had to name one guy that has consistently dominated precision rifle shooting over the past 5-7 years – that would be Austin Orgain.

6mm Dasher Load Data
Bullet: Hornady 6mm 110 gr. A-Tip
Powder: 31.7 gr. Hodgdon Varget
Brass: Alpha 6 Dasher SRP (Small Rifle Primer)
Primer: Federal 205 Small Rifle Primers (yes, the 205 – not the 205M)
Muzzle Velocity from 26-inch Barrel: 2,870 fps
Variation in Muzzle Velocity: SD = 3-4 fps, ES = 15 fps (that is over a string of 7-8 shots and represents extreme consistency shot-to-shot.

25×47 Load Data
Bullet: Hornady 25-caliber 134 gr. ELD-M
Powder: 38.1 gr of Hodgdon H4350
Brass: Lapua 6.5×47 brass necked down to 25-caliber
Primer: MostlyFederal 205 Small Rifle Primers (yes, the 205 – not the 205M), but he also occasionally uses CCI 450 Small Rifle Magnum Primers for cases like the Creedmoor and x47 Lapua.
Muzzle Velocity from 26-inch Barrel: 2,740 fps (View Austin’s complete rifle details)
Variation in Muzzle Velocity: SD = 5-6 fps, ES = 25 fps over 7-8 shot string

25 GT Load Data
Bullet: Hornady 25-caliber 134 gr. ELD-M
Powder: 37.0 gr Hodgdon H4350
Brass: Alpha 6 GT SRP brass necked up to 25-caliber
Primer: Federal 205 Small Rifle Primers (yes, the 205 – not the 205M)
Muzzle Velocity from 26-inch Barrel: 2,700-2,715 fps (View Austin’s complete rifle details)
Variation in Muzzle Velocity: SD = 5-6 fps, ES = 25 fps over 7-8 shot string

This is Part 3 of the spotlight on Austin Buschman, the reigning Precision Rifle Series Season Champion & IPRF World Champion. He’s currently tied for 1st in the 2023 PRS season rankings (

Ammo Performance
I asked Austin about the performance of this ammo in his match rifle in terms of group size and shot-to-shot muzzle velocity variation. Those are things that many of us precision shooters can obsess over, but Austin seemed to avoid getting tangled up in – which was very interesting.

Typical 5-Shot Group Size: 0.3-0.4 MOA. When I asked what his typical 5-shot group size was with this rifle, here was his response: “Are you talking about a 5-shot group size at 100 yards? I very rarely shoot five-shot groups and measure them. It’s hard to say what an average is because about the only time I go measure one is if I think it was an exceptional group and I want to take a picture of it. I would guess my average is very close to 0.1 mils.” Very interesting! 0.1 mil is equivalent to 0.34 MOA or 0.36” at 100 yards.

Average 10-Shot Muzzle Velocity Standard Deviation (SD): 7 fps. Most handloaders have a goal for their SD to be “in the single digits,” meaning less than 10 fps. Some want that to be even lower, or at least brag when they get 5 fps or even 3 fps (although most of those SDs I see posted on Instagram are typically over 3 or 5 shots, which is a meaningless sample size). Austin says, “A 7 fps SD is plenty good for precision rifle matches.”

Chronographs: Maintaining consistent velocities is an important part of long range shooting. If velocity varies too much, your groups will grow taller as range increases. So keeping an eye on velocity is something worth doing. One thing to note is that not all chronographs are created equal. The cheaper optical models can be more trouble than they’re worth, and many aren’t capable of measuring as accurately as we required. The Magnetospeed attaches to your rifle’s barrel and is very accurate and convenient. However, attaching a weight to the end of the barrel can influence how it shoots, so they’re not advisable during load development. The Labradar is also very accurate, and perhaps even more convenient as you don’t need to set it up down range or attach it to your rifle.

I do most of my load testing at 100 yards. I look at group size and ES. If I can produce consistent sub-half-minute groups with an ES under 20 fps, I have plenty of confidence in my loads for long-range work.

Record-Setting .284 Win F-Classer
Ballard's .284 "Purple Haze" Shoots 200-13X at 1000 Yards
Other Guns of the Week >
Has Charles Ballard created the Ultimate F-Class Rifle? With this impressive rig, Ballard recently shot a new National F-Class 1000-yard record, a spectacular 200-13X on the new, smaller 1K F-Class Target. In a very short span, Ballard and his rifle have racked up an impressive string of performances. Ballard won the NRA Long-Range Regional, setting the new National Record in the process. He also won the North Carolina F-Class Championship with the gun, and finished second to National Champion Bob Bock in the NSSC Long-Range Club Championship. Ballard even broke a local club record at 600 yards (also 200-13X) with his tack-drivin' .284. Ballard's "Purple Haze" rifle features superb components, including a BAT MB action, Nightforce 12-42 BR Scope, and a wickedly accurate 32" Broughton barrel.

Load Development and Accuracy Testing
My philosophy on load development differs from many shooters. I don’t primarily shoot for groups. The only goal I have is to obtain the lowest ES and SD I possibly can. Holding elevation in F-Class is crucial. Uniform velocity gives me more consistent vertical point of impact. As we commenced load development, Jerry Tierney’s .284 Win load data posted on this website gave us a good starting point. We loaded 53.0 grains of Hodgdon H4831sc and shot one round, cleaned, shot three rounds, cleaned, then shot 10 rounds and cleaned. From this point we worked up in half-grain increments until pressure signs developed at 2950 fps. Then we backed the powder charge down until the bolt lift was smooth and the primers were nice and round.

Success: 2910 FPS with Ten-Shot ES of 7 and SD of 3
At this point I began working with different primers, neck tension and seating depth. After trying Federal 210m primers, CCI BR-2 primers, light tension, heavy tension, jamming, jumping, we settled on 56.0+ grains of H4831sc with CCI BR-2 primers. We ran about .002 neck tension with the 180s seated just touching the lands. This load gave us 2910 fps velocity with an Extreme Spread (ES) of 7 fps and a Standard Deviation (SD) of 3 fps over ten (10) shots.

If you need to quote someone else,you don't shoot very fhuqking much. Hint.

Just sayin'......................

If you need to quote someone else,you don't shoot very fhuqking much. Hint.

Just sayin'......................

Ole chucky since all you seem to wanna do is try to prove what I'm saying is wrong when everything you highlighted is exactly what i have been saying that low teens to mid 20's E.S will shot as small or smaller than single digit. maybe you should pick up some rifles and shoot some instead of reading about it because you can obviously tell were your at in the game.
Have you told the guys on accurateshooter all your spewing here?