Been using my browning silver 20 gauge silver field and really am enjoying the sport. Looking to a heavier O/U 20 gauge for clays. I have a ton of 20 gauge shells, so don’t want to add different gauge. Was interested in citori cxs, but looking for insights and recommendations. Appreciate it
I have a citori and a 686. I like the citori better. Nothing wrong with the beretta though. I shot both yesterday on 5 stand and did equally poor with both. The cx/cxs or 725 sporting is what I'd be looking at if it were me.
Fit???? Tell me about fit....How do you pick out a shotgun in a store that was made for an average and think it fits? How do you arrive at a fit in the store without actually shooting? How does fit in a store take into account degrees of eye dominance? How does fit in a store account for ones grasp of the fundamentals?
Tell me more than you close your eyes and see if the beads line up.
Hi, I plan on going to legacy gunsmith in Denver to have a fitting done. Obviously want it to be close so no major changes, just looking to get some recommendations to start with.
Is there a big advantage to a 12 over 20 gauge in clays?
I don't know anything about Legacy, but that is one of the steps to having a shotgun that fits. I had a fitting for a sporting clay gun from a guy who knows. I fought him and said it is way too long. I was wrong. It wouldn't work for a field shotgun, but it does for a Sporting and I wouldn't have found it off the shelf. Then there is feel. There is an old saying...."A swordsman chooses his weapon with care". Numbers and feel are not always the same.
Yes on the 12. Mostly for reasons other than the gauge.
This is pretty much how it should be done....along with some shooting...
Shotgun “fit” is an iterative, not prescriptive, process. A fitter worth his salt gets a gun as close as possible in terms of length of pull, drop, cast, grip shape and size. This can be done in shop, generally.
The real fitting is done in the shooting at specially selected targets - outgoers, quartering from both sides and crossers from both sides. The fitting business should blend with instruction, and this is where many if not most of the “fitters” (often stockmakers and gunsmiths) fail. It is crucial that the fitter/instructor is able to read the breaks, knows when to disregard a shot due to a bad move, etc. If the gun in question has choke tubes, I will have the client use tight chokes to help precisely read the breaks. Finally, any sort of fitting attempt, other than very rough dimensions, is a fool’s errand for a novice shooter who doesn’t have a correct and consistent gun mount.
I agree completely with Ben Husthwaite about the value of a pattern plate for gun fit; truly worthless.
Fit???? Tell me about fit....How do you pick out a shotgun in a store that was made for an average and think it fits? How do you arrive at a fit in the store without actually shooting? How does fit in a store take into account degrees of eye dominance? How does fit in a store account for ones grasp of the fundamentals?
Tell me more than you close your eyes and see if the beads line up.
Always a wise-ass. How does anyone kill birds or clays with an off the shelf shotgun? I must be just dam good.
Not a wise ass.. but read it as you wish. Many mention fit, as you did, but never go further than the word fit. It gets old. My asking must have hurt your feelers. Perhaps I should have asked in a kinder/gentler way?
And many do shoot well with an off the shelf. It is why an accomplished shot with great fundamentals will out shoot those who have what may be a perfect fit, but lack the fundamentals.
You obviously have the necessary skills where “fit” will only add that little bit extra. Congrats!!!!
Was your last sentence wise ass? Don’t fret you can’t hurt my feelers.
Which is more important…. Fit or how one uses their vision?
I understood the original post and Battue's responses. To paraphrase dead Johnnie Cochran of OJ fame, it it don't fit you can' hit (or hit consistently with varying targets presentations). My wife and I both hunt quail, dove and shoot sporting clays. Many years ago I took my wife to Wenig in Missouri to have a stock fitted for her 391. It took several hours and I got to watch the process. The fitter was good, very good. First they started by eyeballing the fit and relationship of the face to the stock and eye to the target line of the barrel. A try stock was used as a starting point and many applications of bondo and filling were done before the fit was close. By close I mean the guns should be shooting were she was looking. Finally a laser was inserted into the bore. The fitter told her to shoot the #15 on a calendar on the wall. The laser was high and right of the #15. More filling and the request was repeated. Each time the laser got closer and closer to the #15 until it was spot on. My wife was the one getting fitted but I learned a lot. We took the ugly try stock home and shot it on the 391 for about a month. Her hit percentage improved greatly. After a while we made some minor tweaks to the stock and sent it back to use as a pattern for her new stock. Over the years the only thing we have changed is to add an adjustable comb. As for me, I have an off the shelf over and under that I had the stock cut to change the pitch and added a Cervellati pad. My gun came with an adjustable comb. My gun now fits better that it did when it was sitting on display in the distributers gun rack. Some people are very lucky it the fact that an off the shelf gun fits them perfectly. Others need some tweaks to achieve the perfect fit.
I'll take someone with a rock steady and consistent move/mount/shoot but imperfect fit over someone someone with perfect fit and inconsistent every where else.
I don't know anything about Legacy, but that is one of the steps to having a shotgun that fits. I had a fitting for a sporting clay gun from a guy who knows. I fought him and said it is way too long. I was wrong. It wouldn't work for a field shotgun, but it does for a Sporting and I wouldn't have found it off the shelf. Then there is feel. There is an old saying...."A swordsman chooses his weapon with care". Numbers and feel are not always the same.
Yes on the 12. Mostly for reasons other than the gauge.
This is pretty much how it should be done....along with some shooting...
Not picking on you, but every time I see that video, I'm surprised that is Husthwaite's approach. The kid mounts to his shoulder every time, and then drops his head to the stock. That's not a recipe for repeatability. I'd be correcting that mounting technique right quick. Mount to the cheek as Don Currie demonstrates here.
Pick away, I don’t have an issue with you pointing that out. And if you watch the great shooters, mounting to the cheek is a fundamental. It’s all part of having the head stay still. Which is a characteristic of any top level athlete. Baseball, golf, tennis, ping pong. The great ones have a quiet head.
I have watched many of Ben’s video’s on you tube and I think he does do it correctly…. Even tho this instance seems to make your point. One thing I do know is he doesn’t dip the gun on his mount.
You definitely did pickup on something I didn’t notice. If you are interested enough look at some of his other you tube videos and tell us what you think.
And while we are talking shooting. At the Seminole Cup, Brandon Powell ran 200 straight in the main…. Then added another 100 straight in the Super Sporting. I watched parts of it on you tube. They were not cake corporate event courses.
Pick away, I don’t have an issue with you pointing that out. And if you watch the great shooters, mounting to the cheek is a fundamental. It’s all part of having the head stay still. Which is a characteristic of any top level athlete. Baseball, golf, tennis, ping pong. The great ones have a quiet head.
I have watched many of Ben’s video’s on you tube and I think he does do it correctly…. Even tho this instance seems to make your point. One thing I do know is he doesn’t dip the gun on his mount.
You definitely did pickup on something I didn’t notice. If you are interested enough look at some of his other you tube videos and tell us what you think.
I've watched a good number of Ben's videos and I think he generally does a good job of presenting his information. I'm probably being too picky, because Ben's techniques are good despite how the young man mounts the gun. It just jumped out at me the first time I saw it, and then I couldn't "unsee" it. It sure is easy for us to critique those that are putting out the effort to produce educational videos. I'd hate to think how mine would look, if I had the guts...
I long ago learned from a very knowledgeable "tutor" an important caveat about "gunfit".... he rightly said "gunfit is not so much a bunch of measurements but rather....."Fitting a gun does not have to do so much with actual dimensions as people think. Fitting a gun is a factor of where the loads go when the person shoots" True 50 years ago still true today.....
Carried forward..... a shooting school measurement session is not necessarily a set of measurements that will extrapolate to a perfect fit for every gun you may encounter in your career......
