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Originally Posted by ArcherBunker
Originally Posted by msinc
When I was in Alaska I asked several locals what they carried for bear protection and they all said, "a 12 gauge with slugs".......I then asked if they ever actually shot one and the reply was all "no". I told them that based on my experience tracking whitetails that were shot with slugs they might be betting on the wrong team.
Somebody will be along any minute to bawl and argue about this........


You should contact the Alaska State Troopers, the major Municiple Departments and Federal Game LEO's in Alaska to notify them that you have visited Alaska and spoke with several locals. Tell them your expert opinion from anecdotal conversations and your whitetail wounding experience with 12 gauge slugs render them unwise for bear protection. These departments have been doing it all wrong.

Shotguns with Brennekes can work, but I’ve also seen some strangely inconsistent results from them. A .375, .338, or .458 sort of option is much more reliable. FWIW, a lot of folks working for the troopers or ADG&G are using rifles for their bear needs.

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Originally Posted by ArcherBunker
Black Magic Magnum- 600 grains of hardened rifled slug leaving the barrel at 1500 fps. I like those odds..........

Yeah, very few long guns hurt me after shooting them. I'll shoot my lightweight 300 WinMag and lightweight 338 WinMag all day long. The 870 with those Black Magics can make me sore.

After they created the Palmer-Wasilla Management Area (no hunting with centerfire or rimfire cartridges), I figured for sure that the bears would get the message. I have bee hives, gardens, and livestock here (baby goats and sheep bleating) as well as a garbage trailer I don't haul to the dump until it gets full. It's a virtual bear smorgasbord. But Valley bears are pretty well trained to behave, unlike those spoiled and ornery Kenai bears. In 34 years, I've never had bear trouble here. But if I do, I have slugs ready to go. If I have to shoot one, I don't want to give it to the state.


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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Cascade
Originally Posted by rost495
Not carrying guns around bears is just stupid.

Yup! Pretty doggone easy to carry (and conceal if necessary) a compact handgun with bear-thumping ammo. A lot of folks don't train to react quickly and shoot accurately though.

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Regards, Guy
Guy. Couple things. You may or may not agree.

Bear ammo. Generally speaking it doesn't take what folks think it takes. IE they use powerful ammo they cannot control

Read the Kenai bear attack in the NRA mag. Guy went from not ever carrying a gun to a PD 329 caring 300 grain bear ammo. IMHO he is in the same boat almost as he was. He can't use that gun. Can't control it.. Will be scared of it. Won't shoot it. Will have to wait for bear to have contact with him and then pull and use it... and hope the first shot works because he may loose that gun in recoil easily.

Also training. One needs to shoot a lot. Practice a lot. BUT the part of practice is ignored is the mental part.

While I rarely shoot as much as I used to, I continually practice accessing the gun and running controls on guns. Rather than just shoot.

I think if you produce muscle memory to get the gun working, the rest will come when the adrenalin is up. Assuming again you are a gun person. We know you are a gun person. I know I"m a wanna be gun person.

9mm 147 killed the last handgun bear I had to shoot.... I was kind of wishing I had my 10 or the 329 with reduced Keith loads... but it was what was handy.

Yuppers! In the photo, I'm shooting a 2.5" Model 19. When in "bear country" I usually load it with 180 gr Buffalo Bore ammo. That stuff is stout, but accurate and controllable. smile Phil Shoemaker told me I should give it a try, after I asked a couple of questions re his 147 gr 9mm bear kill.

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When I lived in Idaho- hunting/scouting near Stanley, ID. , I walked up on a good size black bear. It initially ran off about 30-40 yards then started getting nosey- standing up- making unfriendly sounds etc. . Then went on.

I had just finished paying off some doctor bills and that thought was in my head. smile
Imagine the Doctor bills of those who survived attacks- 10's of thousands of dollars.


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Originally Posted by Huntster
Originally Posted by msinc
..........Somebody will be along any minute to bawl and argue about this........

Archie Bunker beat me by 10 minutes......... Alaska and Canadian LEO and ADFG agencies certainly have the aggregate amount of experience in this arena, and they almost universally use shotguns with the heaviest slugs. I just bought up another 75 rounds of Black Magic slugs the other day just because I think another ammo crisis will be here within a year.
Shotguns do work. Not with cheap slugs and or most Walmart type slugs. Shotguns have to be fed the correct ammo. Beyond that most big rifles work with any ammo, but the right ammo is even better and smarter.

Handguns, the ammo is critical. It has to be able to penetrate CNS at the ranges it gets used at. Has to penetrate the skull or spinal cord. Beyond that you have to be able to shoot it well.

Another post mentions someone bragging on how well his 500 or whatever shot. I'm sure it did. He simply couldn't shoot it as well as the gun did.

Thats the point.. This is a minimum of 3 fold thing. Ammo has to work. You have to be as accurate as the gun is( obviously the gun has to be sighted in and accurate enough) And finally you have to mentally be in the game.

Of all those, the mental part is going to win it. Likely even with the smallest gun the mental will have the best odds.

Misses with a cannon are still misses.

I do carry a stout knife. I hope to never use the gun or knife. The knife may get replaced with the lightest 9mm as a backup to the rifle at some point for trailing wounded bears.


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Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by rost495
Yes. Did I mis state something?
Nope. Just looked for the article and found that one. Didn’t remember that incident from 2012.
You never know about me. As you know...


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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A bunch of points in the narrative left me shaking my head... and not in a good way.

800 pound sows are all over the Kenai to start with...


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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
A bunch of points in the narrative left me shaking my head... and not in a good way.

800 pound sows are all over the Kenai to start with...
Art, me agree also amigo. Author's license I suspect...
Don't get me started on the Kenai bears. Has been a major "schist" show by adfg for a half of a century. Also influence by the KNWR big time.

Yes, there are 800 pound sows on the Kenai. What few other people know is that the 3rd year sows (smaller) are (and have been) proven to be breeding here as well, adding to the population mega increase. BTW (I'm certain you already know this as well) the KNWR's DNA study failed to account for ANY of the 40 tagged sows (tagged by adf&g) in said study. Moral of the story (my opinionis yes) is keep your wits about you, learn the warning signs, practice good marksmanship, and to hell with the pepper spray.


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down here in the lower 48 these liberals like to make a big deal about a bear shot ,so if you think someone may find out you shot a bear make sure you use pepper spray before the warden gets there ,probably a good ideal in Alaska too . the 3 - S`s works sometimes but seems everyone has a phone and to many things flying and taking pictures now days , so a small can of bear spray might save you some money and time with the law.


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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Huntster
Originally Posted by msinc
..........Somebody will be along any minute to bawl and argue about this........

Archie Bunker beat me by 10 minutes......... Alaska and Canadian LEO and ADFG agencies certainly have the aggregate amount of experience in this arena, and they almost universally use shotguns with the heaviest slugs. I just bought up another 75 rounds of Black Magic slugs the other day just because I think another ammo crisis will be here within a year.
Shotguns do work. Not with cheap slugs and or most Walmart type slugs. Shotguns have to be fed the correct ammo. Beyond that most big rifles work with any ammo, but the right ammo is even better and smarter.

Handguns, the ammo is critical. It has to be able to penetrate CNS at the ranges it gets used at. Has to penetrate the skull or spinal cord. Beyond that you have to be able to shoot it well.

Another post mentions someone bragging on how well his 500 or whatever shot. I'm sure it did. He simply couldn't shoot it as well as the gun did.

Thats the point.. This is a minimum of 3 fold thing. Ammo has to work. You have to be as accurate as the gun is( obviously the gun has to be sighted in and accurate enough) And finally you have to mentally be in the game.

Of all those, the mental part is going to win it. Likely even with the smallest gun the mental will have the best odds.

Misses with a cannon are still misses.

I do carry a stout knife. I hope to never use the gun or knife. The knife may get replaced with the lightest 9mm as a backup to the rifle at some point for trailing wounded bears.

Or you could just do what that guy in CO did some decades ago. He killed the non-existant (in CO) grizzly that attacked him with a hand-held arrow. Tough way of doing things, to my mind..... smile

First, ya gotta find an animal that F&G says isn't there, then you have to get it to put you on the ground. Then you have to prove to F&G both of the above, but the carcass helped.

Last edited by las; 03/06/24.

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I remember reading one of the Huntington's books from either Sidney or Jimmy. Shadows of the Koyukuk or The Edge of Nowhere. The author wrote how the Athabascans hunted "The Big Animal" with only a sharpened brown bear leg bone strapped to the front end of a birch pole. I wonder if they set around the fire and argued over the length of the pole? :>)

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Originally Posted by pete53
down here in the lower 48 these liberals like to make a big deal about a bear shot ,so if you think someone may find out you shot a bear make sure you use pepper spray before the warden gets there ,probably a good ideal in Alaska too . the 3 - S`s works sometimes but seems everyone has a phone and to many things flying and taking pictures now days , so a small can of bear spray might save you some money and time with the law.
Nope. No legal nor logical need for condiments for protection.


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Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by pete53
down here in the lower 48 these liberals like to make a big deal about a bear shot ,so if you think someone may find out you shot a bear make sure you use pepper spray before the warden gets there ,probably a good ideal in Alaska too . the 3 - S`s works sometimes but seems everyone has a phone and to many things flying and taking pictures now days , so a small can of bear spray might save you some money and time with the law.
Nope. No legal nor logical need for condiments for protection.

Federal Warden explained to me why , do as you want but i will do the smart way from now on in the lower 48 .


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Heck ya!

AB, my tree stand spear might be a little more involved than the one depicted in Hunnington's tome.😉 The head is a modified, double- edged copy of the Clovis point found in New Mexico. CNC machined from 4041 chrome moly. It is attached to a ten foot copper plated steel ground rod that has had a milled joint placed into the shaft to accept it. The final eight feet is of 4041 cm tubing, which holds the main shaft via slight friction, with a stainless pin acting as a "stop" for when it is thrusted at a suspecting target. The complete spear weighs about 14 pounds. Being hollow-ground and razor sharp, penetration is easily assured!

Might have to bring it out this spring just for giggles. . . 😎


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Yikes BH!

I'd have to wear a pair of them Astronaut britches for a sport like that.

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Originally Posted by ArcherBunker
Yikes BH!

I'd have to wear a pair of them Astronaut britches for a sport like that.

I guess it DEPENDS what sort of guy you are!

wink


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Originally Posted by bearhuntr
Heck ya!

AB, my tree stand spear might be a little more involved than the one depicted in Hunnington's tome.😉 The head is a modified, double- edged copy of the Clovis point found in New Mexico. CNC machined from 4041 chrome moly. It is attached to a ten foot copper plated steel ground rod that has had a milled joint placed into the shaft to accept it. The final eight feet is of 4041 cm tubing, which holds the main shaft via slight friction, with a stainless pin acting as a "stop" for when it is thrusted at a suspecting target. The complete spear weighs about 14 pounds. Being hollow-ground and razor sharp, penetration is easily assured!

Might have to bring it out this spring just for giggles. . . 😎
I’ll run video! 😉


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👍


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I'll run video of Ironbender running video - from some little distance.

As put in one of L'Amour's books, "Some people are just determined to be an innocent bystander".

Once removed would at least give me a running start leaving a greased obstacle course behind for the bear.. smile

Last edited by las; 03/07/24.

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This is turning into a party!


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
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