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Just talked to my buddy in the valley and there’s a border patrol helicopter down with multiple fatalities in La Grulla.
He didn’t know what happened but he said it looked like an Apache?
Anyone know the story
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Campfire Kahuna
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They do fly Apache's.
Not good.
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Campfire Kahuna
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STARR COUNTY, Texas (ValleyCentral) — A National Guard helicopter crashed near La Grulla Friday afternoon, killing two people, sources tell Nexstar.
At least four people have been critically injured as a result of the crash, Texas Department of Public Safety South Texas Regional Director Victor Escalon confirmed to Nexstar.
Starr County Judge Eloy Vera told BorderReport that one National Guardsman and three Border Patrol agents were aboard the helicopter at the time of the crash.
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Campfire Kahuna
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(NEXSTAR) — A National Guard helicopter crashed near Texas’ border with Mexico on Friday afternoon, leaving at least two people dead, multiple law enforcement sources confirmed to Nexstar.
The helicopter went down in La Grulla, a small town in east Starr County on the Rio Grande River, Lt. Chris Olivarez with the Texas Department of Public Safety confirmed.
At least four people may be critically injured, DPS South Texas Regional Director Victor Escalon told Nexstar. Escalon could not independently confirm further information and directed inquiries to Customs and Border Protection.
Escalon said the helicopter was not a part of Operation Lone Star, Texas’ unilateral border enforcement arm utilizing the National Guard, but “a military helicopter on federal orders working with Border Patrol.”
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13175699/National-guard-helicopter-crash-texas.htmlhttps://archive.is/gvqVaAt least two people have died after a National Guard helicopter crashed in Texas, multiple law enforcement sources confirmed to KXAN.
The crash took place on Friday afternoon, near Rio Grande City with four people on board according to authorities.
All least four people were critically injured, Texas Department of Public Safety South Texas Regional Director Victor Escalon told local media.
One of the fatalities is understood to be a border patrol agent, according to NewsNation reporter Ali Bradley.
At least two people have died after a National Guard helicopter crashed in Texas , multiple law enforcement sources confirmed to KXAN
Republican rep Maya Flores Vallejo asked the public to pray for the victims
Escalon said the aircraft was 'a military helicopter on federal orders working with Border Patrol' and not part of Operation Lone Star, Texas' border enforcement arm which works with the National Guard.
Starr County Sheriff's Office said it is, 'currently assisting with a downed helicopter incident on the East side of the county, involving possibly four occupants'.
The Texas Department of Public Safety confirmed it is assisting federal agencies with the crash, which took place near Old Military Road, approximately two miles east of La Grulla.
Former Republican congresswoman Mayra Flores Vallejo asked the public to pray for the victims.
'I am asking for a prayer request and support for Border Patrol and CBP Air and Marine Operations. A tragic helicopter crash just happened near La Grulla, Texas. My thoughts and prayers are with you,' she wrote on X.
"Social order at the expense of Liberty is hardly a bargain” de Sade
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Campfire Kahuna
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Border patrol has Apache gunships?
Wow…had no idea
Wait…Apache gunships seat 4 ???
Had no idea
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Border patrol has Apache gunships?
Wow…had no idea It has to do with Title authority. The military can work with the BP so as long as the BP is running the operation and making the decisions. I have worked with the border patrol extensively on the border years back. As a military person I couldn’t do anything without at least one border patrol representative with me. It’s also how the military does a lot of loopholes overseas in apprehending “certain” people in areas that are not in active combat. In short, it’s all lawyer stuff but it’s how it’s done.
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Border patrol has Apache gunships?
Wow…had no idea
Wait…Apache gunships seat 4 ???
Had no idea I saw BP using them years ago at Presidio airport. I landed there in a single engine C172, and there were 2 Apache's there tied down. The guy at the FBO told me they were Border Patrol's... But that was years ago when BP actually did something besides process wets for shipment to our interior. Apache's have to be getting lots of age and wear on them by now.
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Hard to believe there were any survivors. RIP 🫡 ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/7hSr8mz4/httpstwitter-com-BNONewsstatus1766245777569955998ref-src-twsrc5-Egoogle7-Ctwcamp5-Eserp7-Ctwgr5-Etweet.png)
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Hard to believe there were any survivors. RIP 🫡 As far as rotary wing crashes go, that wreckage is not that bad at all. I have seen a few where you couldn’t make out it was an aircraft, of any type. I have seen an aftermath of an F18 flying straight into a mountain. Basically it’s a hole and you are digging parts out.
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
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Hard to believe there were any survivors. RIP 🫡 As far as rotary wing crashes go, that wreckage is not that bad at all. I have seen a few where you couldn’t make out it was an aircraft, of any type. I have seen an aftermath of an F18 flying straight into a mountain. Basically it’s a hole and you are digging parts out. No disagreement. Still surprised (if reports are correct) there are survivors.
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I can't tell from the picture if that is an Apache or if it's the new replacement for the Huey, the UH72 Lakota. The Lakota would hold multiple passengers. The Apache is designed to hold 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_UH-72_Lakotakwg
Last edited by kwg020; 03/08/24.
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Don’t think that pic is of an Apache. Might be a Kiowa.
Both the Apache and Blackhawk are twin engine birds and the one in the pic looks to be a single. Apaches only have 2 seats.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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So was it close enough to the border to be attacked?
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So was it close enough to the border to be attacked? Close enough for cartel soldiers to drone to the crash site. Maybe some of our Texas members can help translate.
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Why do we have Border Patrol when they are letting all illegals in our country. Oh they are the welcoming committee, I now understand.
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Kind of looks like a Kiowa in the blurry video.
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Campfire Ranger
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Lakota is what some of the more recent articles are saying.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Border patrol has Apache gunships?
Wow…had no idea
Wait…Apache gunships seat 4 ???
Had no idea Again Never seen an Apache hold 4 personnel But ok, I yield to superior intelligence
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Helicopter was a UH-72, an Apache had crashed in that same proximity previously.
Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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they found a video on tik tok showing cartel members watching the chopper crash and say hope you rot in hell and they laughed
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Campfire 'Bwana
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From a video of an eyewitness, it sounds like there was a tail rotor issue. The man said the copter was spinning rapidly and falling straight down. Eyewitnesses are notoriously mistaken about what they've seen, but the crash photo does appear to have been a vertical impact with the craft horizontal. "Belly first" in other words.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Border patrol has Apache gunships?
Wow…had no idea
Wait…Apache gunships seat 4 ???
Had no idea Again Never seen an Apache hold 4 personnel But ok, I yield to superior intelligence The original post says that a buddy said that it looked like an Apache. That isn't a declaration that it was an Apache. Also, the original post doesn't mention 4 people. It wasn't until later posts that 4 passengers was mentioned, and none of those posts claimed that the helicopter was an Apache. I don't see where anyone stated that the helicopter was an Apache. Where did anyone say it was an Apache?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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As usual, acy, reading comprehension takes a distant back seat to sensationalism and wild hypothesis. You at least have risen above that.
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Campfire Kahuna
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So much for 'autorotation'... Isn't this about the 4th or 5th helo that's crashed in the last few months??
Prayers to those families of the deceased.. Very sad day for them..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Digital Dan may chime in, but in my limited knowledge of helicopter flight, if you lose the tail rotor, autorotation goes out the window and the only emergency procedure is to kiss your ass goodbye.
I'm not definitely saying that was the cause here, just that the results seem to hint at it.
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Digital Dan may chime in, but in my limited knowledge of helicopter flight, if you lose the tail rotor, autorotation goes out the window and the only emergency procedure is to kiss your ass goodbye.
I'm not definitely saying that was the cause here, just that the results seem to hint at it. That's my understanding. Once the tail rotor is not countering the main rotor torque everything starts spinning. Auto rotation depends on the gear box still spinning the tail rotor to counter the main rotor. The first Blackhawk down in Blackhawk Down was a due to a RPG strike on the tail rotor. Helicopters with 2 main rotors have the rotors rotating opposite and don't need a tail rotor to counter the main rotor torque. C-47 and the Orc KA-52 are examples.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Helicopters are inherently risky and you need some elevation for autorotation to work. Unless you have very good mechanics working on them with rock solid QC, experienced pilots, I wouldn't get on one again. And I've flown on them in some of the worst weather/conditions imaginable.
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Border patrol has Apache gunships?
Wow…had no idea
Wait…Apache gunships seat 4 ???
Had no idea Again Never seen an Apache hold 4 personnel But ok, I yield to superior intelligence The original post says that a buddy said that it looked like an Apache. That isn't a declaration that it was an Apache. Also, the original post doesn't mention 4 people. It wasn't until later posts that 4 passengers was mentioned, and none of those posts claimed that the helicopter was an Apache. I don't see where anyone stated that the helicopter was an Apache. Where did anyone say it was an Apache? I was wondering. My friend said it looked like an Apache… it was down in his neighbors field and he wasn’t allowed to go get the serial numbers or make and model! That being said it went down within a good long rifle shot of the river. Wonder if a 50 cal could take out a tail rotor? I’ve hunted his fields before and it wasn’t uncommon to hear full auto shots from across the river. Not saying that’s what happened for the ones with zero reading comprehension, but it wouldn’t surprise me. We’ll never know. Making that public knowledge would require a response in the real world, but in fantasy land they’ll say it just crashed and blame some 23yo crew chief for not torquing a bolt right.
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As notes that’s a UH72 Lakota. My son is a UH-60 mechanic, but also certified on the Lakota’s as well. He said part of the deal with Army NG units getting the Lakota is a deal was cut for the Army NG to help the border patrol. Prayers for those that lost loved ones in the crash.
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Digital Dan may chime in, but in my limited knowledge of helicopter flight, if you lose the tail rotor, autorotation goes out the window and the only emergency procedure is to kiss your ass goodbye.
I'm not definitely saying that was the cause here, just that the results seem to hint at it. That's my understanding. Once the tail rotor is not countering the main rotor torque everything starts spinning. Auto rotation depends on the gear box still spinning the tail rotor to counter the main rotor. The first Blackhawk down in Blackhawk Down was a due to a RPG strike on the tail rotor. Helicopters with 2 main rotors have the rotors rotating opposite and don't need a tail rotor to counter the main rotor torque. C-47 and the Orc KA-52 are examples. I thought auto rotation meant that the pilot disengaged the aircraft from the spinning main propeller(s) and allowed the propeller continue to spin on its own ("auto rotate") as a way of providing some lift as the helicopter heads down. And supposedly the pilot only has a split-second to make this happen before the centrifugal force from the spinning makes it impossible for him to reach upward to push the button to make it happen.
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La Grulla, Is damn sure Indian Country, was there a few day's ago for a funeral, a lot of Border Patrol and DPS parked around there. Rio7
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When you lose tail rotor through drive, gearbox, or tr blade failure the only way to counter main rotor torque is by aerodynamic force and making a run on landing. Not possible if you are low and slow.
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Digital Dan may chime in, but in my limited knowledge of helicopter flight, if you lose the tail rotor, autorotation goes out the window and the only emergency procedure is to kiss your ass goodbye.
I'm not definitely saying that was the cause here, just that the results seem to hint at it. For autorotation to "work" you have to be in the right attitude. If your forward speed is zero or close to it and your tail rotor loses effectiveness (no left or right directional control) it's something like being in a flat spin. Nothing good happens after that. See Jimone's response. kwg
Last edited by kwg020; 03/09/24.
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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The obvious probabilities are loss of tail rotor. loss of tail rotor effect, fixed t/r pitch, or settling with power - in this case most likely occuring at low airspeed. As Jimone said, depending on the particular model if it happens at 45-50 knots or faster, in most instances the helicopter can be flown to runway where a run-on landing can be accomplished. If this occured at night and/or in questionable weather, then loss of visibility and situational awareness could be the root cause or at least a major contributing factor. The accident will be investigated by the Army Safety Center folks along with state NG safety officers and they do a thoroughly, professional job in determining what happpened. At this point even when something appears obvious, it's still speculation.
Last edited by Offshoreman; 03/09/24.
AKA The P-Man  If you cherish your memories with kids, be a good role model . . . . so the RIGHT memories of you mean something to them.
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Well summarized and said, good sir.
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Digital Dan may chime in, but in my limited knowledge of helicopter flight, if you lose the tail rotor, autorotation goes out the window and the only emergency procedure is to kiss your ass goodbye.
I'm not definitely saying that was the cause here, just that the results seem to hint at it. That's my understanding. Once the tail rotor is not countering the main rotor torque everything starts spinning. Auto rotation depends on the gear box still spinning the tail rotor to counter the main rotor. The first Blackhawk down in Blackhawk Down was a due to a RPG strike on the tail rotor. Helicopters with 2 main rotors have the rotors rotating opposite and don't need a tail rotor to counter the main rotor torque. C-47 and the Orc KA-52 are examples. I thought auto rotation meant that the pilot disengaged the aircraft from the spinning main propeller(s) and allowed the propeller continue to spin on its own ("auto rotate") as a way of providing some lift as the helicopter heads down. And supposedly the pilot only has a split-second to make this happen before the centrifugal force from the spinning makes it impossible for him to reach upward to push the button to make it happen. The main rotor and tail rotor are connected through a gear box. If there is no damage to the tail rotor or the connection then the tail rotor will spin with the main rotor and the pedals will control the pitch of the tail rotor blades. I assume to auto rotate the pilot needs to disconnect the main rotor from the engine to allow air flow to rotate the main rotor and produce some lift to slow the decent. Pretty recent helicopter auto rotation in Hawaii. Sounds like the rotors are over spinning on the way down but the pilot didn't have much space to land and had to lose altitude fast to hit the beach. Still had the tail rotor to steer the nose. Auto Rotation Crash Landing
Last edited by JohnBurns; 03/09/24.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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That's partially true but not the case in settling with power, fixed "stuck" pitch, or loss of tail rotor effectiveness. As to what you think from the film - if by the term "over spinning" you mean overspeeding, what I hear is an increase in the frequency which would be the transmission as the rotors generate low-freq sound. Anytime one has a truly unexpected engine failure, initially he's going to lose rotor RPM because he's has a good degree of pitch in the blades combined with a reversal of airflow now coming up through the rotor disk - he has to lower the collective to "flatten out" the pitch in the blades which allow the rotor to build and recover the RPM initially lost when the engine quit - also he made a quick, decelerating right turn (which also builds rotor RPM) if all that makes sense - so that's what you think is an over speeding which in effect, is actually recovery of rotor RPM building and still being connected to and driving the transmission which is generating the increasing, high frequency sound. In most helicopters, if you look down between your feet through the chin bubble, the spot you see on the ground is about where you're gonna end up . . . one way or the other. A lof of fun when it's planned - not so much when it's not.
Last edited by Offshoreman; 03/10/24.
AKA The P-Man If you cherish your memories with kids, be a good role model . . . . so the RIGHT memories of you mean something to them.
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Digital Dan may chime in, but in my limited knowledge of helicopter flight, if you lose the tail rotor, autorotation goes out the window and the only emergency procedure is to kiss your ass goodbye.
I'm not definitely saying that was the cause here, just that the results seem to hint at it. That's my understanding. Once the tail rotor is not countering the main rotor torque everything starts spinning. Auto rotation depends on the gear box still spinning the tail rotor to counter the main rotor. The first Blackhawk down in Blackhawk Down was a due to a RPG strike on the tail rotor. Helicopters with 2 main rotors have the rotors rotating opposite and don't need a tail rotor to counter the main rotor torque. C-47 and the Orc KA-52 are examples. I thought auto rotation meant that the pilot disengaged the aircraft from the spinning main propeller(s) and allowed the propeller continue to spin on its own ("auto rotate") as a way of providing some lift as the helicopter heads down. And supposedly the pilot only has a split-second to make this happen before the centrifugal force from the spinning makes it impossible for him to reach upward to push the button to make it happen. The main rotor and tail rotor are connected through a gear box. If there is no damage to the tail rotor or the connection then the tail rotor will spin with the main rotor and the pedals will control the pitch of the tail rotor blades. I assume to auto rotate the pilot needs to disconnect the main rotor from the engine to allow air flow to rotate the main rotor and produce some lift to slow the decent. Pretty recent helicopter auto rotation in Hawaii. Sounds like the rotors are over spinning on the way down but the pilot didn't have much space to land and had to lose altitude fast to hit the beach. Still had the tail rotor to steer the nose. Auto Rotation Crash LandingOf course, Johnny Burns, the expert in everything military related, sees the phallic-shaped light beam shining up on the clouds, puts on his assless chaps and comes giggling to the rescue. WyomingArmsMan saves the day again.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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