Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 45/70 hand loads in ruger/Marlin lever action

I suppose anything is possible, but why would anyone do that? Especially with a decent scope mounted?

I bought some 405 grain bullets here on the campfire.

They had a shrink wrap type plastic on them. I think they are clear choice?

I clocked them at 2000 fps out of a 1895.

I must have used #1 data to load them.

So I bought a #1 to shoot them.

Yeah, who’d put a Leupold in danger. If sacrificing a Marlin, a discerning dude would surely save the Leupold.

I doubt it was deliberate. The wrong #7 powder makes sense. RL-7 is a good .45-70 powder, #7 not so much.

DF

Very nice. Which bullet?

But then again he could get it replaced for free

I'll play the Devil's advocate. It could be mounted later, but would be difficult to boresight...

I use both AA7 (.45 Super, .460 Rowland) and RL 7, mainly for .458 Socom, but it does have good application in the .45-70. Haven't tried it yet, but if I do, I'll take the Leupold off.

I like that way of thinking.

I once bought a .22 Magnum because I had just bought a beater car from somebody and found a box of shells under the seat.

You can get pointed TTSXs or other spitzer bullets, to run in a .45-70 #1, so higher speed makes sense from a trajectory standpoint. Any other rifle, like a 1895, I don't see the point of pushing the pressures. I'd say stick to established, "modern lever action loads".

I have started playing with subsonic 410gr Hornadys in the .45-70, so I want to try them on deer & pigs.

I have hand loaded for, written about and reviewed many 1895's since the reintroduction in 1971 and also was given some of those Speer 350gn Flat points when they first arrived to review. At that time however, the distributor wasn't sure which .458 cartridge they were intended for, so I started with the Marlin's where they shot way under MOA and just north of half that which surprised a lot of people, including me.

In keeping this response directed to the topic, here my findings for IMR 4198 tended to be lighter than that of H 4198 which is the Australian powder AR2207. All my .45/70 experience is from JM rifles.

300gn Hornady - 50gn IMR4198 for 2049fps in 22" Barrel
350gn Speer FP - I used 3 other powders and not IMR 4198 with this bullet unfortunately.
400gn Speer - 47gn IMR4198 for 1914fps in 22" barrel
405gn Remington - 46gn IMR4198 for 1793fps in 22" barrel
500gn Hornady RN - 45gn AR2207 which is H 4198 and again, a little slower burning than the IMR powder for 1576fps though I settled on 44gn for 1550fps as a hunting load single loaded of course.

When I later owned a 26" Cowboy rifle, I used H 4198 here in the US and found a couple of things, firstly, the longer barrel does make a difference increasing velocities over the usual 22" barrel, secondly, the powder charges were notably higher using H Vs IMR versions of this powder. Here is what I found.

250gn Barnes X - 60gn H4198 for 2650fps. (Compressed load)
300gn Remington - 58gn H4198 (Brian Pierce's load @38KPSI) for 2454fps
300gn Barnes X - 55gn H4198 for 2322fps.
405gn Remington - 50gn H4198 for 2058fps.
405gn Woodleigh - 50gn H4198 for 2026fps.


Hope these loads can provide some interest in this rifle and cartridge. Please start lower and work up.

I like the 250 gr. TSX Barnes at 2,550 fps, Marlin data, out of my .45-70 Marlin. I chest shot one doe and it blew lung tissue out the other side of her chest. There was a blood gusher that was pretty amazing. Needless to say, she didn't go far.

I shot a young hog with nearly the same effect. The far rib cage had the exit hole and the ribs were broken in a radial fashion, cracks leading out from the hole, like a broken window. And, lung tissue was on the far side. That bullet must have really pushed that rib cage pretty far out to get that fracture pattern.

And, that load is really accurate. The hollow point looks like the open end of an ashtray and hits game accordingly.

Check Barnes data for that load. Not a long range load, but will do pretty good out to 200 yds. or so, maybe a bit more if you know the drop.

DF

Just a side note:
Most of my loads were developed before modern manual data was available and attempted to flatten the trajectories for semi open forest hunting which is mainly what I was doing. The Marlin's tended to show capability for velocity increases, but as many have alluded to, you paid a price in discomfort with the hotter loads and because pointed bullets were showing up in the '90's in particular, they created more interest in pushing velocities albeit, also demonstrating that the basic rifle design wasn't friendly to pushing loads excessively.

For that reason, I dropped the .45/70, stayed with the .30/30 for light use and concentrated more on the .458 Winchester and .460 Weatherby (and a bunch of .416's to be truthful) which utilized those lighter pointed bullets in a more efficient package, in a rifle designed for heavier recoil management and serious use where the .458 caliber may be intended. This certainly wasn't Australian feral culling or American deer hunting which as others have commented, doesn't require heavy loads to secure success in the field over usual brush shooting ranges where this lever rifle is more suited. This makes the above quoted loads just a part of my own history and not necessarily a recommendation on how hard you can push the 1895 design which is really a modified 336 action thinned internally to accommodate the fatter cartridge. Removing metal for design evolution does not strength the action. Something to think about, as I would tend to favor lighter loads in using a .45/70 today.

That deserves an attaboy sticker on your Loony card.

I’m impressed. Love your logical problem solving.

DF

405 grain cast.

There isn't an animal in North America that will stop that bullet from a complete pass through side to side. The unecessary chase to get those velocities above 2000 FPS is ridiculous.

I think everybody has to hot rod a .45-70 at least a little. I mean, it’s not like anybody buys one because they don’t recoil. My current load is a REM 405 and 50 grains of 3031 out of my #1. About 1800fps.

It’s accurate and will likely flatten anything in TN, but when I run out of them, it’ll probably get weaned over to 400’ish cast about 300fps slower.

Funny how somewhere in your 40’s hot rodding gets less important….

Loaded up some 300 gr Sierra FNHP over 40 grains of Rx7. My go to squirrel load.

My favorite is cast 30:1 500 gr w/a duplex load of 6 gr SR4759 and 60 gr Swiss 1.5 FG. It's all the muscle I need so far as I'm concerned. Someday I may put the scope on Thumper, but so far it's just a tang sight.



100 yards, elbow rest:

Any one who doesn’t like loading up a 45/70 never seen Taylor sheridans movie wind river.

I think I saw the fishing line jerking the perps when 1895 hit.

I never did see em “ crimping the cannulure “.

Yeah for sure. What I did back in the day doesn't hold much interest for me now.

I see Fire contributors who hunted for decades with magnums, now going more to conventional rounds.

One contributor who I won't name, is now shooting his 7-08, his 7RM staying mostly in his safe.

I'm about there myself.

DF

We all start light, go too far, then back off to reality at some point. Well, most of us......

I’ve become very fond of lightweight rifles for hunting, and smaller cartridges go easier with those. Don’t see any less killing power so far. Something else I’ve come to enjoy is getting in close, and last season I began, though circumstances, hunting exclusively from the ground. I doubt I’ll ever climb another tree.

I'm poster boy for that. I run 37 grains of 3031 behind a cast 405