One thing that gets lost in these discussions is the size of the target. For example, in PRS the target sizes are from 1-3 MOA. Just because you can adjust the w/e and hit the target, that isn't proof of perfect tracking. It's proof of adequate tracking for the game being played.
Wrong again
It’s illustrative of perfect click values, tracking and zero retention
In the Precision Rifle Series, NRL and Practial Rifle Matches, the competitor is allowed one shot at each target.
The scope must function perfectly
This is opposed to some other disciplines. F-Class sometimes has unlimited sighters. You can shoot at the target as many times as you want until you adjust your drop and windage to your liking, THEN decide to shoot for score.
Your scope’s function can be mediocre
F-Class= 1/2 moa x ring, BR= 0 moa is the goal. PRS, NRL big score zones, room for error, more a billboard than F or BR..
It would be interesting to have an optical engineer disassemble a , let's say a perfectly tracking Nightfforce and imperfectly tracking Leupold and point out as to why the difference in performance.
F Class= 1/2 moa x ring, BR= 0 moa is the goal. PRS, NRL big score zones, room for error, more a billboard than F or BR..
Exactly It doesn't mean any one discipline is 'better' than the others...just that the demands are different. When this simple concept can't be grasped, it's like trying to push a piece of wet spaghetti...lots of effort with no results.
It would be interesting to have an optical engineer disassemble a , let's say a perfectly tracking Nightfforce and imperfectly tracking Leupold and point out as to why the difference in performance.
NF would probably have a more robust erector system.
I guess for a guy like who has zero desire to spin turrets, most of what’s being written has no effect. When I’m hunting I know before hand what the POI is at any distance I’m going to shoot. What matters is optical quality and holding zero. You guys that like to spin turrets have added issues of which I’m not interested in doing. I personally do not know anyone I hunt with or shoot with that spins turrets. I’m thinking that the ability to do so with a scope is not all that important for a company that manufactures scopes. Important for some, but only a small percentage.
I’ve shot quite a bit competitively and have only used iron sights. And I knew how many clicks to change POI from 325 to 500 or whatever the game called for. Lately the only matches I’ve shot is with the M1.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
If on the other hand you realize there are lots of good optics and Leupold makes some damn good optics even if you pick something else you will get a smile out of the wailing and knashing of teeth that the shitty rifle brigade posts.
Quote
What the pros use: PRS Scope
Without fail, the rifle scope is the most searched for piece of precision rifle equipment of the What The Pros Use list, and for good reason, as most actions, barrels and rifles when chambered and fitter properly will shoot well, but if the scope fails or you cannot see the target, it cannot be shot, no matter how accurate the rifle is. What was surprising this year, is how many shooters in the top 10 were using the Tangent Theta, but good to see the Leupold Mark 5HD still being the most used, and still very much perfect for the job. This just goes to show that you do not necessarily need the most expensive elite tactical scope and in fact the top used scope being half the price of the second place for most used, and both get the job done.
It's such a clear demonstration that those who can't make a Leupold work simply have shit rifles and shitty shooting skills.
Lots of good scopes but the LDS losers are looking for a SCOPE GOAT for their issues.
Originally Posted by 24hr Campfire Skilled Shooter Brigade
He said SCOPE GOAT
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
I guess for a guy like who has zero desire to spin turrets, most of what’s being written has no effect. When I’m hunting I know before hand what the POI is at any distance I’m going to shoot. What matters is optical quality and holding zero. You guys that like to spin turrets have added issues of which I’m not interested in doing. I personally do not know anyone I hunt with or shoot with that spins turrets. I’m thinking that the ability to do so with a scope is not all that important for a company that manufactures scopes. Important for some, but only a small percentage.
I’ve shot quite a bit competitively and have only used iron sights. And I knew how many clicks to change POI from 325 to 500 or whatever the game called for. Lately the only matches I’ve shot is with the M1.
Spin turrets when hunting?
Nobody has time for that.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
I guess for a guy like who has zero desire to spin turrets, most of what’s being written has no effect. When I’m hunting I know before hand what the POI is at any distance I’m going to shoot. What matters is optical quality and holding zero. You guys that like to spin turrets have added issues of which I’m not interested in doing. I personally do not know anyone I hunt with or shoot with that spins turrets. I’m thinking that the ability to do so with a scope is not all that important for a company that manufactures scopes. Important for some, but only a small percentage.
I’ve shot quite a bit competitively and have only used iron sights. And I knew how many clicks to change POI from 325 to 500 or whatever the game called for. Lately the only matches I’ve shot is with the M1.
To the chagrin of Window Lickers the World over,all Modern scopes have turrets. Though not all scopes are alike internally,if only obviously. Hint.
Rest fhuqking ASSURED,that there is no Magic Stay Zero'd Dust,sprinkled in the nether regions of glass wearing capped turrets. HINT.
What is THE hilarious constant,is the exceedingly low mileage of said wares and dick nothing over time,is then MAGICALLY transposed to somehow being "good" by Droolers. THE most important part of a scope,is the schit you can't see,whether pointy heads believe it or not. Spent primers are THE Supreme Tutorial. Hint.
Just sayin'..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
If on the other hand you realize there are lots of good optics and Leupold makes some damn good optics even if you pick something else you will get a smile out of the wailing and knashing of teeth that the shitty rifle brigade posts.
Quote
What the pros use: PRS Scope
Without fail, the rifle scope is the most searched for piece of precision rifle equipment of the What The Pros Use list, and for good reason, as most actions, barrels and rifles when chambered and fitter properly will shoot well, but if the scope fails or you cannot see the target, it cannot be shot, no matter how accurate the rifle is. What was surprising this year, is how many shooters in the top 10 were using the Tangent Theta, but good to see the Leupold Mark 5HD still being the most used, and still very much perfect for the job. This just goes to show that you do not necessarily need the most expensive elite tactical scope and in fact the top used scope being half the price of the second place for most used, and both get the job done.
Yep - Leup is 1 overall but when I go to the PRS website itself and add up what is basically the same scope in 2 different generations/magnification - Vortex has 103 more users than Leupold.
Of the guys currently in the top 10, I believe there are 2 shooting Leupold. 4 and 10. Rest are something else. Overall Leupold is 22.2% of the PRS shooters, Vortex is 29% Is that "domination"? being 6.8% behind the #1 brand choice?
Doesn't mean Leupold is crap - just saying that it's not exactly like there's Leupold and nothing else comes close or that by not using a Leupold scope, you're at a disadvantage.
F Class= 1/2 moa x ring, BR= 0 moa is the goal. PRS, NRL big score zones, room for error, more a billboard than F or BR..
Exactly It doesn't mean any one discipline is 'better' than the others...just that the demands are different. When this simple concept can't be grasped, it's like trying to push a piece of wet spaghetti...lots of effort with no results.
I guess for a guy like who has zero desire to spin turrets, most of what’s being written has no effect. When I’m hunting I know before hand what the POI is at any distance I’m going to shoot. What matters is optical quality and holding zero. You guys that like to spin turrets have added issues of which I’m not interested in doing. I personally do not know anyone I hunt with or shoot with that spins turrets. I’m thinking that the ability to do so with a scope is not all that important for a company that manufactures scopes. Important for some, but only a small percentage.
I’ve shot quite a bit competitively and have only used iron sights. And I knew how many clicks to change POI from 325 to 500 or whatever the game called for. Lately the only matches I’ve shot is with the M1.
Spin turrets when hunting?
Nobody has time for that.
There are lots of us that have never and will never have any need for spinning turrets. The longest shot opportunity I've had at game since 1994 was 285 yards. I killed that deer with one shot with no need to dial. The vast majority of my shots are under 75 yards. This is due to the terrain in my hunting area being primarily heavily forested. I couldn't possibly care less about "spinning turrets". What matters to me is dead meat on the ground and my Leupold scoped rifles have put it there consistently year after year.
Yes they will survive. They are still thought of as a quality optic by hunters, many of who aren't on the internet everyday. Most hunters Arent shooters. They run 3 shots down the tube to check zero a day before hunting season. They adjust if necessary and go hunting. They might shoot few times at game over their season then the wipe their rifle off and put it the closet until the next season.
Every gun club in America, two weeks before season, would prove this out…. Lol
Decades of voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us just that.....
I guess for a guy like who has zero desire to spin turrets, most of what’s being written has no effect. When I’m hunting I know before hand what the POI is at any distance I’m going to shoot. What matters is optical quality and holding zero. You guys that like to spin turrets have added issues of which I’m not interested in doing. I personally do not know anyone I hunt with or shoot with that spins turrets. I’m thinking that the ability to do so with a scope is not all that important for a company that manufactures scopes. Important for some, but only a small percentage.
I’ve shot quite a bit competitively and have only used iron sights. And I knew how many clicks to change POI from 325 to 500 or whatever the game called for. Lately the only matches I’ve shot is with the M1.
To the chagrin of Window Lickers the World over,all Modern scopes have turrets. Though not all scopes are alike internally,if only obviously. Hint.
Rest fhuqking ASSURED,that there is no Magic Stay Zero'd Dust,sprinkled in the nether regions of glass wearing capped turrets. HINT.
What is THE hilarious constant,is the exceedingly low mileage of said wares and dick nothing over time,is then MAGICALLY transposed to somehow being "good" by Droolers. THE most important part of a scope,is the schit you can't see,whether pointy heads believe it or not. Spent primers are THE Supreme Tutorial. Hint.
Just sayin'..............
Exactly
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
To the chagrin of Window Lickers the World over,all Modern scopes have turrets. Though not all scopes are alike internally,if only obviously. Hint.
Rest fhuqking ASSURED,that there is no Magic Stay Zero'd Dust,sprinkled in the nether regions of glass wearing capped turrets. HINT.
What is THE hilarious constant,is the exceedingly low mileage of said wares and dick nothing over time,is then MAGICALLY transposed to somehow being "good" by Droolers. THE most important part of a scope,is the schit you can't see,whether pointy heads believe it or not. Spent primers are THE Supreme Tutorial. Hint.
Just sayin'..............
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
Exactly
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Exactly +2.
I have a good LiL Buddy up north also agrees.
Originally Posted by Big Stick
I've a couple few Leupie's,that have over 20,000rds of centerfire apiece through them,with nary a bobble.
For conversation...................
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
If these internals could be seen,one would simply return it or select another from within the Store,depending upon how i was procured. Hint.
Unfortunately,it is heralded as Reupold's Flagship and BEST effort. Perhaps they'll toss a MK4 FFP Spotter erector assembly in it?!? Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Flipside being,robust internals are VERY forgiving. Hint.
Just sayin'.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
funny...owning a scope is like being a sports fan loyal to the bone.
Not really.
What you see is those most invested in the negative are looking for an excuse why their rifles are shit and shooting skills are shitty.
Loyal sports fans don't have any contribution to the team except location or liking the mascot.
Those of us that have good rifles and shooting skills have personally had great results using Leupold so we get a bit of fun out of packing sand in the VeeJays of those who struggle and blame one particular brand for their failures.
A more applicable anology would be players on a winning team laughing at all the excuses the losers make.
This is a Hunting Optic forum but it's easy to see that the whiners don't have much hunting experience that demands optics that work in the field.
Last edited by JohnBurns; 03/15/24.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
jiffypop: Leupold & Stevens Corporation has been in existence for 117 (one hundred and seventeen!) years now and they now have over 700 (seven hundred!) employees with revenue of $200,000,000.00 (two hundred million dollars!) a year - what makes YOU think they are going out of business? Sheesh! Long live Leupold & Stevens Corporation - a fine AMERICAN company. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy P.S.: Yesterday at my local gunshop the owner put out a "used" Leupold 3x9 CDS variable scope and there was nearly a fight over it! It was on the used scope shelf for just moments til it was purchased. This morning at my local range there were three shooters (including me) and a total of 4 Leupold scopes (out of 6 or 8 that were in use. No problems I saw. What am I missing - let me correct that, what are the few Leupold naysayers on this forum missing?
-Al
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