Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Stalking rifle, untangle my head please.

Calling on the pre 64 Model 70 hunters, owners and collectors please, i need help getting something out of my head:

Rifle #1, standard rifle in 300 H&H, all factory.
Rifle #2, standard rifle in 270 Winchester, very slim custom English walnut stock.

300 H&H wears an old gloss Leupold 3.5-10x40 AO in a set of S&K rings/bases.
270 Winchester wears an old gloss Burris straight tube 1.75-5 in Conetrols.

I have Lyman receiver peep sights for both and have switched each back and forth between the peeps and scopes several times, it's crazy.

Have around 250 rounds loaded for the 300 with 220gr NPT's, also have 200gr NPT's and A-Frames for it.

The 270 has about 30 rounds left with 150 NPT's with 150gr Grand Slams and 400 Norma Oryx 150gr bullets on the truck for today's delivery.

Both rifles with glass or irons are more accurate than i can shoot them, especially in the field off sticks/tree/pack.

If you guys were to have "one" stalking rifle for clearcut jump hunting whitetails and possible African plains game to 200 yards which setup would you choose?

Or leave them be and hunt both with scopes? help me get this idea out of my head completely or set one for stalking, i don't know why this has bugged me for so long, it may have a lot to do with barrel sight hunting Sharps rifles with paper patch and black powder.

Thanks all in advance.

I would be in the 270 camp myself. I have seen your 270 and while your 300 is great as well, the little 270 seems like a nice rifle to rest in your paws doing what you are describing.

I run lyman aperture sights on my model 70s. Don’t like scopes unless they are mounted forward of the receiver.
I would hunt your 270 over the 300 because it’s handier.
I got to shoot a friends 300 super grade a while ago. Very nice rifle, accurate with just the barrel sights. He sold it at the Winchester show. He has another 300. Pre war, reblued but not padded. I will hunt with it and maybe buy it. It won’t replace my featherweights though.

I would pick whichever fits you better. IME Jumping deer is a lot like hunting quail over a flusher, you want the rifle that is going to come to your shoulder and give you an instant sight picture.

Thanks Big B, i agree, that stock is the slimmest i've ever seen, any scope i put on that rifle looks ridiculous, completely overpowering the trim build, bet a man could do alot worse than 150gr Oryx bullets at an accurate 2900 fps over H-4831 SC.

Frank, yes, part of my problem is rifle/cartridge overlap, i have a very cherry pre-64 FWT in 270 Winchester i would sell, that way all the 270 W brass would be dedicated to this stalking rifle, those 300's sound very nuce, i hope you buy one.

Blacktailer, thanks for that info, i need to take that test, quite sure it will be the 270.

I need to see if Pacecars will post some pics of the rifles, leaning hard for the 270 being the one so far.

Man, those sound like very nice rifles to me, and set up nicely. My only thought is about the AO on the 3-9x40. On a quick handling rifle, I try to stay away from AO's. You know me though, I'll run a Burris FFII 3-9x40 on all of my rifles. I've used them a lot though, and turning the power ring to adjust magnification is second nature. Where's batue on this?? We need another shotgunner to respond. Back in the day, I hunted a lot of running targets, I also shot trap competitively. Shoot with both eyes open, for quicker target acquisition. I'm sure you do that already, especially when you are hunting animals that hunt back!!! With this being said, you are the best judge in picking out what is the handiest rifle scope package. I keep things simple, mostly because it works very well for me. That by no means implies that it will work for you, or anyone else, buddy. I'm with you though, I like a set up where I know I can make the shot. When out in the field, I think often that all I need to do is see one. That is 99.9% of the battle. Making the shot and the equipment you use, isn't even really a concern for me. Yeah, I know. I only shoot off a bench and punch paper. What do I know? ha ha...

Thanks buddy BSA, speaking of overlap, i had forgot the old 300 H&H wears a 3.5-10x40 instead of 3-9, pretty sure that's a felony in this state ; ]


The A0's have never been a problem with hunting for me, if walk hunting i just set at 100 and can quickly shoot to 200 if need be with no accuracy issues, farther out while glassing and running a range finder a man has plenty of time to range and adjust, i bought some of those Burris FFII on one of the sales you guys posted about, handed em out to guys to get their kidsscoped up and out shooting.

I think the littlle 270 will get the nod, i cant think of an angle on a whitetail deer where the 150gr Oryx or Grand Slam wont reach the vitals, i will admit, if i get screwed on a really big whitetail buck i'll cut this crap out and just use scopes, we all know we can't hit what we can't see, even us paper punchers!

Our old buddy Beretzs read the post and had mercy, he's going to post up some pics of the rifles in question here, the 270 really is a slim trim one, Thanks Scotty, i appreciate it greatly Sir.

Thank you kind Sir!

The Oryx or GS will hammer deer. Or elk. Or moose.

Not even a chance.

No problem at all. Pleasure seeing good rifles.

Have chased PA and NY bucks for the last 43 years (stalking, sitting and everything in between) with a 270 and 4X Leupold. It’s always been up to the task, never needed or wanted anything else.

Good to know about those bullets Beretzs, especially if pressing the 270 into heavy African plains game animals, 900 lb tough Zebra or 1 ton Eland bull would be a real test.

BTW Big B, that long open grip on that 270 would fit your catchers mitt paw like a custom made knife handle, may be another feature for quick shouldering stalk/snap type shooting.

Thanks Poconojack, that's good to know, i have a little gloss 4X leupold here, considered putting it on this 270 but the Burris is even smaller, the pre-64 FWT 270 wears a gloss 2-7 Leupold, man that rifle needs to go to someone that will hunt it, i have let it sit in the safe for far too long.

I’ll hunt with the 300 this fall loaded with 250 grain Barnes originals. Ought to make an elk stick his tongue out!

I like the sounds of that 270 Gunner...

Frank, you aren't kidding, that is cooler than the other side of the pillow!

Let's see that 270 Gunner!!!

Leave them be with the scopes and find a 30government06 in a prewar Winchester model 70 with Lyman 48. That is splitting the difference and works as your “cruising” rifle.

Hell yeah Frank, those old pure copper/lead Barnes originals would make a bull hunch up hard for a short death crash, good stuff.

Thanks again Big B, it's a cool little stick.

LOL NYRifleman, maybe Scotty can post some more pics today if he has time, or PM me your cell and i'll fire you off a half dozen.

Kaboku68, great idea, the old '06 with 200gr NPT's, A Frames or 220 NPT's will lay low big animals for sure, neat setup, if i wasn't trimming down that'd be a great setup, in fact and iirc Justin out at pre64win.com has the very same rifle, i think a 1938 model '06 already notched for the old Lyman 48, it was around 2200 bucks i think, great classic pure woods hunting rig.

Leave the scopes on both. Flip a coin, take the winner hunting and the loser as backup.

Nice rifles btw.

Thanks MD, you have a definite point, last evening at dusk i took the 270 out back and had a seat on the firewood trailer, looked at some 150 weight red and black calves at 200 and 245 yards, i could have pulled off the shots in the open field with receiver peep, the calves in the fencerow cedars and shadows would have neen NO shot at all with iron sights.

I turned the little Burris up to 5X, could see plain as day, damn sure something to think about, firearms safety of course first and foremost, but, we are afterall out on any hunt there to "kill"

I tried using my grandfathers big bore 94 375 Winchester, one day, and an early morning buck eluded me. I tried to find him in the shadows, looking through the peep sight. No bueno. Never took that rifle hunting again!!!! That was in the dark forests of Oregon. I took the m71, I sold to you, out a few times. The factory bolt peep on that one isn't too bad. Never had a shot with that rifle, and probably a good thing. I much prefer scopes for hunting, because my left eye (dominant eye) sucks. If I had to shoot an iron sighted rifle right handed, It wouldn't bother me, but it doesn't feel as natural. I like being able to pull up, get an instant sight picture, and pull the trigger when the time is right. I have faith you will get it figured out buddy.

Gunner,
I'm sure your 270 set up would work very well for whitetails, and, it would probably work just fine for most African plains game. However, I will mention that most PHs in Africa look for a .30 cal or bigger on plains game since they claim you can usually get a good blood trail with this caliber or above, but not so much with smaller calibers. Don't misread this. They'll let you hunt with whatever you bring, but they'll be waiting for you to mess up with those "little" bullets. I'd personally use the .270 for whatever you want for whitetails, but I'd also keep the 300 and take it to Africa as my "light" rifle. Get a .375 or .458 for your heavy!

LOL! damn BSA bud, man i mentioned it earlier, if i get my ass busted by a sure enough big buck by not being able to make a clean shot due to naked eye iron sight shooting i'll surely be done with tradition with bolt action rifles and iron sights, that would put a permanent cap on this chit Bud!


Thanks Test, i agree, the small bores would be my first for African plains game, lets see, the smallest bore lightest bullet weights to the largest i've used in Africa:

270gr BBC, 375 H&H
400gr Woodleigh, 400 Whelen
400gr A-frame, 400 H&H
404gr Hammer, 458 WM
480gr DGX/DGS, 500-450 Nitro
500gr TBSS, 458 WM
528gr paper patch, 45-70 Sharps
750gr paper patch, 50-90 Sharps
750gr TSX/Banded solid, 577 Nitro

Dang Sir, writing all that i have went and spooked myself, i may need to lower my minimum for African plains game to 338 cal and 250gr AFrame, then see how it goes.

I have a real nice 338wm, but it's NOT for sale. Bwahahahaha.. Hope you had a great Easter, buddy!!! Hey, I actually contemplated giving up shooting irons, but then I started shooting right handed. The 22lr's, Colt sporter target, and 6.5 Swedish mauser are sweethearts, as well as the SKS, but the model 71 I sold you was too much, shooting from the weak side. Now I know why they call it "weak side"!!!! I only keep my big bore 94 375 Winchester around, because it was my grandpa's rifle. One of his favorites, so it will stay with me till I'm gone... My buddy asked me how that rifle shot, the other day, and I told him I honestly don't know!!!

Also, you have a very nice collection of big boomers there!!! I was looking around for the pics of the 375 H&H case and bullet you used in Africa, but could not find it. I know if there is one guy I'd ask about what to use there, it would be you. Good thing I have you on speed dial. ha ha..

Funny stuff Bud, i bet that piece of brass and recovered bullet got packed up and stowed during your move, i have a couple nice 338 WM's, but Test does have a point, thinking my old FN Browning Medallion 7mm RM may be a good sensible minimum for plains game, i use 175gr grand Slams in that rifle over H-870 powder for 2940 fps, it's flipping funny as chit, huge BOOM with fireball and smoke, horrible fuel mileage and dirty to boot LOL, but heck man, it's accurate as hell, i know there's better powder and bullets, it worked then, it'll work now, just like the two piece Redfield steel bases and engraved rings, hell, even the old gloss Leupold holds an accurate zero.

All joking aside, the 175's should provide an exit for blood trailing, but, have seen from more than 50 years of hunting, a solid hit in the vitals and NO animal goes far.

The old '71 isn't going anywhere either, cool that you're hanging on to the old 375 Winchester, they do hold a special place ; ]

Sounds awesome to me. You know what would be the ultimate cool factor? Your new 7x57. Hell, they might even put your picture up next to Karamoja Bell's, if you took that one..

Neither, for deer and smaller African plains game old .270 Win Featherweight would be ideal. It is light weight handi rifle which can still compete with modern light weight rifles so in vogue today. Another standout in pre-64 family is .338 WinMag suitable for heavy plains game.

...Winchester pre '64 SG .270 in Africa: Leopard (1), wildebeest (1), Zebra (5), springbok (1), blesbok (2), sable (1), impala (8), baboons (3), kudu (2), warthog (3), gemsbok (1). All shot and killed with 150gr NP bullets.
Take your .270 and don't look back.

You're exactly right old buddy, that 7x57 with 170gr Oryx and 160gr Northfork flat nose solids for fun would be a perfect mate if i swing the deal on a 1956 Super Grade 458 WM, i'd use the old SAMMI load at 3.340 COL driving 500gr Partitions at 2155 fps and 450gr BBW#13 flat nosed solids a hundred fps faster, all would hit the salts post haste.

Good info TSIBINDI, Thanks, i do have a load with 150 NPT's at 2925 fps, or could even develop a new load with 150gr Oryx or Speer Grand Slams, i joke around having fun, any good bullet in the vitals from a 270 Win. would do the deeds.

Good stuff buddy. I'm sure all of the above will work great... That 458 would be cool as hell too. Good luck with that one.

Thanks and you bet Sir, funny smell in the wind, seems one of old guys sons may kill the sell on the pre-64 SG 458, no way to ethically approach a situation about a man's guns with his kids!

Did have a guy offer me 1500 bucks cash for my little pre-64 FWT 270, i said no thanks as he's a fuggin flipper, I'd rather sell it to someone that will hunt and keep that little accurate gem!

Oh well, all good nonetheless, maybe it'll break loose ; ]

Alright kaboku68, wheels have been turning in my head, nearly took your advice on a pre war, but, did find an excellent 1948 30government06, it's on the way, i'll check the sling swivels when it gets here, hope they're 1-1/4 inch, that's a perfect looking sling you have on yours.

I have the dies, 100 sticks of new brass laid out, as well as CCI-250's, H-4831 and 200gr A-Frames, the old Lyman 48 receiver peep is there too, will be looking for north of 2650 fps and snuff can accuracy with 200 yard zero ; ]

gunner old buddy, you bought a lowly ol 30-06??? God have mercy on your soul!!!

Yes sir old Buddy lol, it's all kaboku's fault, i couldn't get 'cruising rifle' outta my head, kinda like sending Big B a pic of my pre 64 Varmint 243, he cussed, then went and bought one too ; ]

I'll give this new rifle a good foam barrel clean, check the stock for splits, snug it all back together and hit the chrono, it's all there, all factory, will pull the rear sight, have a little box of dovetail blanks, install the Lyman receiver peep with the target knobs, gonna be a fun deal, i do like walk hunting, can't think of a cooler rig for that, and be it buck or bull at any angle, those 200gr AFrames will dig to the vitals, if for some reason the rifle wont shoot them, 200gr partitions and Northfork's await.

That will be a hitter of a rifle.

I can shoot just fine with iron sights, but they don't help me see antlers on a deer moving through the woods. So, I almost always hunt with a scope.

Where I live, we normally hunt by simply walking slowly through the fields and woods. Or we have one person sit at a chokepoint while another person hunts up towards them. The rolling hills and fence lines mean that concealment is abundant, so stalking to get closer is almost always an option. The wind, however, is swirling and unpredictable. It can be blowing one way inside a draw and another way at the top of a finger.

Our woods were last logged in the late 1960s or early 1970s. Inside the woods, a long shot is 200 yards and an exceptionally long shot is 300 yards. An average shot in the woods is a snapshot at 50-100 yards on a moving deer. In the fields, while one could theoretically get a 600-yard shot, in practice I haven't had to take a shot over 200 yards. The only deer rifle I own that doesn't have a scope is a Winchester M1886 in .45-70. That also happens to be the only rifle which I have actually taken hunting with which I haven't taken a deer.

For this kind of hunting, I don't think there is a finer hunting rifle than a "classic cartridge" with a fixed power 4-6x scope. That's all that is needed.

For a stalking rifle, it seems to me that that a shot could present its shot opportunity pretty quickly and maybe not at the best shot angle. Yes, use enough gun and both the .270 and the H&H with the right bullets are enough for the stalkable stuff that I know about aside from the big bears in North America. That brings us to the recoil of that H&H magnum verses the .270 on an iron sighted rifle. Recoil is the reason that I built up a 7mm-08 instead of using my 7mm RM for my whitetail deer hunting. Shots can happen fast and at odd angles and a perfect cheek and stock to shoulder position favored that lighter recoiling cartridge.

Similar story for me.

I was hunting on a tree farm in western Washington with a brother in law who had a peep-sighted Sedgley 1903 Springfield. We got back to the truck with a little more light than expected. I could still see the reticle on my 4x scope but he couldn't see his sights.

He switched to a scoped Ruger Model 77 after that.


Okie John