Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Hard mouth help?

Any suggestions on how break a dog from chewing up birds during the retrieve? My Drathaar likes to make my woodcock look like they were run over. out of my birds. Not so bad on grouse but still likes to give them a crunch. I work with him constantly with the Dokken dead fowl trainers and you can see him working them over on the way back. Hate to try and tone or use stimulation as i dont want him associating that with retrieving in general.

Had one very good trainer suggest taking freshly killed birds and inserting a zip lock full of vinegar in the body cavity. Haven't tried it but might give it a shot. I have seen training dummies that have rods in them that I imagine wouldn't be to pleasant to chew on.

Have ya tried retrieving with frozen birds?

Force breaking/fetch, trained retrieve, or whatever one wishes to call it has shown the most promise in an endeavor that has a low success rate. I have used it with some degree of success on a few dogs though fragile birds like woodcock and doves were still challenging on occasion.

Bumpers with nails or spikes, hairbrushes, frozen birds, and the like are pretty low on the scale. The suggestion of vinegar is a new one to me, I can't see it being any more successful than the above but can see a few potential problems.

Best of luck getting this straightened out.

Lots of tricks, but it’s an uphill climb. Soft vs hard mouth is often inherited. Frozen birds, wire spiked training birds, frozen birds, etc will all be recommended. Might help a little. Really, it’s:

1. Work with a good pro. Force fetch, etc.
2. Enjoy the dog and deal with slightly mangled birds.
3. Rehome the dog and start again.

I’ve done 2 and 3. 1 probably makes the most sense. Good luck.

Find this dog a new home, once they start chewing up birds they never completely stop, soft mouths are born not made. Rio7

I guess I will try some frozen birds and more force fetch. Like the dog way to much to rehome so living with some mangled woodcock looks like my best option.

Lots of time on the bench force fetch. You might have to go through the whole process again. If so, absolutely do not move onto the next step until the previous one is perfect. E-collar is your friend while teaching him to hold correctly. What kennel is he out of if you don’t mind my asking?

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He is out of Vom Schlussstein, Green ranch Gundogs out of PA. Nice dog in the house and pretty well mannered. Likes to go everywhere with me in the truck and that beard makes him lots of friends.


I got lots of time this spring and summer to try and get this done.

Well you have two options seeing you are married to the dog.

Work on the Force Fetch

Don't use him to retrieve

How old is the Dog?

Had an FBEC that chewed on them as a pup…. Grew out of it by the end of his first year.

When we started training my drahts, we were doing duck and rabbit drags early in the process. We went to great lengths to prevent them from grabbing the duck or bunny at the end of the track and chewing on it. I guess that can sometimes start this habit. I did force fetch at 8 months on both of mine and have not had this issue.

In your spot, I'd redo the force as mentioned above and hope it works out for you. They're a great breed and I'm considering a 3rd or a DK in a few years. Best of luck.

In high school, my girlfriend's GSP had a mouth of steel. Put so many nails in a quail she mangled it looked like a porcupine and offered it back to her. She tried to swallow it! If I hadn't been quick, she might have. So, the nails in the bird won't deter a determined chewer.

As chance would have it, I have a dog from the Vom Schlussstein G litter, and he has a very soft mouth.

Since you and the dog seem to have good rapport, this might work for you. I used it on my current DD puppy, and it fixed his hard mouth issue early in his fetch training. With the dog sitting, have him "fetch" your hand. May want to put a glove on first if you think he may bite down hard. If he won't open up for your hand, open his mouth and insert it. If he chomps down on the hand, feign excruciating pain and make noise like you're hurt. If he doesn't bite down, tell him good boy and give the release command (out, etc.). Do this until he readily takes your hand and holds it gently. Praise him to the skies when he does it well. Next, hold a dead bird in your hand and repeat. Hope it works for you and your dog.

This. OP mentioned force fetch training already but what was desired was not fully understood by the dog. Go back to the beginning and do not move to the next step until the dog fully understands what is to be done. And, make sure whomever is doing the training is not glossing over steps or rushing through a set schedule.



This is a step in force fetch, part of the purpose is to prevent the dog from rolling things in their mouth and to further promote a soft mouth. You WILL want to wear a heavy leather work glove for this, an insulated leather work glove may not be a bad idea. (I wear a work glove through all the steps where the dog is expected to take an object from my hand to prevent injury to myself. I have a few scars teaching myself that lesson.) I implement it after the dog has learned to take training bucks from my hand. This is the step I would be especially concentrated on though the steps prior and after are also important.

I appreciate all the replies. We have begun force fetch from the beginning this week and so far so good. Will update this thread as we progress through this process.

FF if your dog is old enough.

I know I'm in the minority here but none of my dogs have been force fetched and fortunately they all love(ed) to retrieve. I just don't see the purpose of FF if the dog retrieves naturally and enthusiastically.

As has been hashed out before, force fetch is advanced obedience training using the Fetch command, not a means of forcing a dog to retrieve. Done correctly one will see an improvement in obedience across the spectrum in addition to retrieving. In this case, force fetch training is being used to correct an unwanted behavior during the retrieve which is an obedience issue. The term, like so many other dog training terms, is derived from horse training and breaking a horse to allowing itself to be ridden which is another topic all its own.

Like horse breaking force fetch has multiple methods of reaching the final goal. These methods can range in appearance from mild to harsh with many, supporters and detractors both, only seeing the seemingly harsh end. Many of the latter likely use methods of force fetching from the mild end not knowing they are doing so due to not fully understanding the concept.

Ok now I’m confused. You say you have a Draht and obviously know the first step in the force fetch regimen but now you come on here and say you don’t force fetch your dogs? Do you test your dogs? I guess if you don’t it doesn’t matter but if you do, how do you pass an HZP?

I’ll finally add the .02.

Avoidance of a hard mouth starts with the first puppy retrieve of a dead bird. If it’s an issue you correct it then. Address it like one does when you want a Dog to gently take a treat from your hand. Along with making it a game of give and take. Waiting to when they are older is when issues usually show up.

As far as the testing issue, No need to FF unless you have the issue. I know, you are going to lose that championship. Most here are talking hunt tests and not field trail championships. And the real world is not always the same as the testing.

Merlot has a soft mouth....but this was a Bird that put up a fight, and the way it ended was with a bite.



Had a Springer that a Rooster clawed him when he was a pup.....After that I never had to kill a Bird with my hands. Those that needed it came back with one clean bite and a soft retrieve to hand. I wish the ones in the future did the same.

Battue, I agree that force fetch is not an absolute necessity, especially if your dog has a natural ability and drive for it. And I also agree that it starts when they’re pups. As far as a championships goes, I don’t do “field trial” tests like through the AKC, NAVHDA and the like. I test through the JGHV where the only competition, so to speak, is against the breed standard, not other dogs. I could’nt care less about a championship. I’m after repeatable characteristics and results, litter after litter. Flitecontrol came on and gave good advice about how to hopefully rectify some bad behavior in the OP’s dog, said he had a Draht himself , and then went on to say that the advice he gave, he doesn’t use himself. I was just questioning the veracity of said knowledge. Like I said I was confused. If he didn’t test his Draht it doesn’t matter. If he does I don’t see how he passed. Part of the standard is how does the dog accept and adhere to training. Also mangling or eating game is considered a breed flaw in Drahts and something they don’t want passed on.