Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns What would cause this type of FTF?

Well, unfortunately I have about 40,000 of the CCI primers so I will have to figure out something that works.

Just how stupid would it be to try to use my hand primer to seat them deeper? 🤣🤣🤣

If you prep your brass once, it is done, cut the primer pockets, to uniform the pocket size and depth, then cut the flash holes inside to out, trim to uniform length, when loading with a taper crimp, seat as a seperate stage, then crimp the case mouth until straight. The case loaded head-spaces on the case mouth, thus the case must stop on the case mouth at the chamber to lands cut, can not jam inside the lands.

If you get a bench mounted RCBS primer tool you can feel the primers seat a good hard seat on ever primer on every case is good.

Not the absolute dumbest thing, but close.

I've just started using a Lee Auto Bench Prime. I've got about 500 223 primes with it - I like it.

Well, I called my insurance agent and updated my life insurance policy and then proceeded to sloooowly hand-squeeze about 10 rounds while holding them around the corner of my concrete porch supports. Absolutely no difference in primer depth, so I don’t believe that's my issue at this point. 🤣
I will investigate further.

Your Pistol probably just needs a good Cleesing!

You're obviously experiencing Fawlty Powers.

He already cleaned it thoroughly.

Friends,

.380 does not headspace off the case mouth. That is in theory. Reality is entirely different. This also applies to pretty much any semi auto cartridge fired in a standard semi auto handgun.

It headspaces off of the extractor. Unless you have specifically dropped a round into the chamber and over ridden the extractor, the cartridge is normally fed from the magazine into the pistol. It is held against the breach face by the extractor.

That is why you can fire a 40 S&W in a 10mm, a .380 in a 9mm, and so forth.

Also the brass does not shrink/get shorter after it is fired. Just the opposite. Brass is malleable. It flows. It flows forward and forms to fit the chamber (to a degree). In doing so it lengthens. In the process the overall length grows a bit. That is why you have to re-size the brass in order to reload it. You are returning it to its original length as well as other dimensions.

Since a 380acp pistol uses direct blow back. Couldn't an imperceptible bulge in the cartridge keep it from being fully chambered, with a strike from the FP being enough finish chambering the round instead of igniting the primer?

This makes sense.

I'm going to investigate this further. I have ordered a Bulge Buster from Lee and I'm going to run about a hundred rounds of brass through it and check them in my chamber gauge. Currently, quite a few of the rounds (and empty, re-sized brass) have to be gently nudged into the gauge once the round gets to the rim - almost as if the head of the case is just a tad tight.

EA,

It could. and the fact that some of his rounds are having a difficult time clearing the go- no-go gauge may be an indicator that they are not sized properly. I would go back to square one, and take a close look at the sizing die, to the point of simply pulling it and re-seating it to make sure it is seated properly and sizing the case all the way down.

I’ve always used Dillon dies which just do a taper “crimp”. Does the FCD really do a crimp? That could theoretically bulge the case mouth slightly and cause an issue in the gauge.

I believe the Lee FCD does a taper crimp.

Unless you have a revolver chambered for an auto round.

Yes, it most certainly can and does headspace off the extractor, the base of the case or anything that holds the the case in place and stops forward movement. There is still the need to have a forward chamber stop. Its insurance.

Carbide handgun dies especially, to my knowledge, only contact the exterior diameter of the case and have no mechanical means of making the case shorter.
They also most certainly do not reduce a case to its original dimensions; its usually smaller, more than what a steel die does, which is why many rounds made with them have a bulge. I'm assuming these are carbide dies, because that's what most use.
This smaller diameter size collar elongates the case; the expander run through shortens it.

I agree, if the sizer is not set up to size low enough on the case it can create the issue the OP is having. The case could be hanging on the pressure expanded ring on the fired brass that is not reduced sufficiently, deadening the firing pin blow before the extractor or headspace shoulder stops the brass.

Some caliper readings at multiple points along a factory cartridge that works against a hand load that doesn’t may offer some insight.

I have to admit that I wasn't completely aware of this, so I went to my loading bench, got out my caliper and checked it out. That is exactly what I'm seeing. And the end product is the same length as the fired case.


I'm having a hard time believing that if the force of the entire slide mass isn't enough to seat the round thoroughly, the little firing pin is able to move it more. It's possible, I guess - but I've never seen that. I have experienced the bulge in a tight chamber stopping the slide out of battery, and cured that with the FCD.

That is correct. The FCD does a taper crimp.

My experience is that carbide sizers, special crimping dies, LEE junk and a single fixed chamber creates more confusion than six separate chambers and a nominal old school steel die ever could fathom....

Which is why I've never been a contraption guy .

I've snapped some pictures to illustrate some misconceptions today and will post them later.

For a hint, cartridge brass is no different than our bullets. They swell and form where pressure is greatest; at the rear. The sizing is what makes them (cases) longer, not the fitting to the chamber upon firing.

Theres also a good reason to make headspace on the case mouth with contraptions and not to rely on a rim or an ass end headspace condition.

Any 38 Super guy understands this as a function of accuracy and the industry has as well.

If you've had "success" with a LEE die getting rounds to fit the front end, the same "affliction" can be caused with carbide dies on the ass end, especially with brass picked up wherever.

Let us start at the beginning; I must be forgiven, because I have no unfettered 45 Colt brass laying around. I chose the 45 for these examples because it is a cartridge plagued with wide chamber variances and die variances. And its longer than the OP's cartridge, which should magnify what we are discussing.

Quite frankly I would be disappointed in myself if I had any fresh 45 Colt brass lying around. I still have some modicum of faith in myself. I did manage to pull two once fired cases to measure:



Here's the first cartridge, sized with an RCBS Cowboy Carbide sizer:


This one is sized FL in a steel sizing die, the ones that (gasp) need lube:


There's two things at play here; one, the carbide die and the steel die both re-size the case to a longer OAL than the fired brass. Second, the brass in the steel die, even though adjusted to cam off the shell holder to maximize sizing, reduces the brass diameter less and creates a shorter cartridge length before expanding than with a carbide sizer. It also shows sizing at the pressure ring where the carbide die bulges. Note that neither die reduced the length of the fired cartridge. An expander in both will reduce them in length slightly, because you are expanding.
But this is about unfired versus fired brass.

Here is an unfired 22 Jet round. I chose this one especially because it has a neck and shoulder juncture and also because its the poster child of magnifying everything we are searching answers for; the REAL answers. This is an unfired Jet case.



Here is a fired Jet case from the same lot of 500 as the unfired case. Note the shoulder is blown forward, the datum line of the neck has been filled out, but we again have a shorter case. The brass has went outward and forward to fill the chamber(s)without growing in length. Yes, I have more unfired brass at the unfired length and fired brass pretty much the length of this piece of fired brass; I could post 50 or a hundred more pictures with the same results.
We could easily make the fired brass longer through the sizing process; either marginally by partial full length sizing to the pressure ring, going all out with a full length re-size, or we could get really crazy and full length size AND hit the body with a 357 carbide sizer die ring, just like thousands of reloaders do with their handgun brass. But there is no way we are going to shorten it without a trimmer.



Brass is no different than the bullets we fire; they swell where pressure is greatest and they shrink in length to fit, especially towards the base end. If you size either on the outside diameter (which is what we do when re-sizing), they will get longer. With cylindrical brass the brass will flow to fit at each firing and this is exacerbated if you are using a carbide die full length or a FL die full length, less so if we adjust the FL die to just chamber. So in that regard our brass will lengthen, but fired brass will shorten each time to fit the chamber and will only grow longer with the "aid" of re-sizin

Brass length, initially, shortens at the first firing, expansion or neck up....if you neck down or size down from there, it lengthens.