Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Recoil springs/felt recoil?

Been trying to learn a little about 9mm & 45acp recoil spring weight effect for follow up shots. Maybe I'm missing something here but there seems to be different opinions on heavier vs lighter springs. Some opinions I've read say a lighter spring will lessen felt recoil and some say a heavier spring reduces felt recoil. Which is correct and is there enough felt difference with either to justify changing the factory recoil spring for shooting factory 124 gr ammo in the Glock 19 or 230 gr in the 1911.

As a side question does 9mm 147 gr ammo have less noticeably felt recoil than 124 gr?

The main reason, I think, that semi-autos have less felt reoil than revolvers or single-shots, is that the rearward movement of the slide spreads the recoil impulse out over some time—rounding off the pressure curve so to speak.

One thing that can hamper that benefit is if and when the slide travels all the way rearward and strikes the receiver, which creates an instantaneous recoil impulse. So, with hot loads, a heavier spring that prevents the slide from striking the receiver can reduce felt recoil. However, it must allow the slide to move far enough rearward to eject the empty case and catch the new round in the magazine. So, a heavy spring that works with hot loads might not work with lighter loads.

Some of my Glocks and HKs have a clever design to address this. They have a lighter spring that solely is engaged until after the slide travels far enough to eject the spent case and catch the new round, but, after that, a second heavier spring is engaged to prevent the slide from striking the receiver.

Or at least that’s how I understand it.

The only time I have ever changed a recoil spring in a 1911 is when shooting 185 grain popcorn fart loads for bullseye. Felt recoil being subjective my normal process is to either reduce bullet weight or reduce powder charge or both since recoil is dependent on both. One can also go from a 3 or 4” 9mm shooting 147 to the same load out of a 5” which reduces felt recoil by adding pistol weight.
Too much reduction in recoil spring weight also subjects the barrel lugs and frame to battering.

It’s hard to get an answer everyone agrees on. I haven’t done it yet but (re: 1911s) using a heavier mainspring and/or a flat bottom/reduced radius firing pin stop makes the most sense to me. 460 Rowland has their Recoil Damper, which may be even better. I need to get a couple of these systems to find out for myself.

OTOH, I have HKs with the dual recoil spring setup that seems to work well.

Interesting instruction on the operation of the 460 Rowland V2 Recoil Damper. Good explanation of the role of the recoil spring.

https://460rowland.com/product/460-rowland-1911-v2-recoil-damper/

Interesting, but dont see how its very different than a variable weight recoil spring and they dont cost 200 bucks.

https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php?page=FAQ#question1

The difference is both physical and operational. With a conventional spring, all the coils are spaced equally apart, except for the closed ends. In a variable recoil spring the space varies between coils with less space between coils at one end and more space between coils at the other end.

The way the two springs store energy is also different. For example if a conventional recoil spring is compressed 1/2", it might store 1 pound of energy. For every additional 1/2" this spring is compressed it would then store 1 additional pound of energy. When a variable recoil spring is compressed 1/2", it might store 1/4 pound of energy. The next half inch of compression might store 1/2 pound, the next half inch might store 3/4 pound and so on. In other words, a conventional spring stores energy on a straight line and a variable spring stores energy on a curve. If both springs are rated at 16 pounds, they will both store 16 pounds when compressed to the same working length, but the way they get to 16 pounds is different.

I’m sure variable rate springs work too, also the dual spring assemblies. The recoil damper works like shock absorbers or air brakes. The more pressure applied and/or the quicker it is applied the more it resists the movement.

I’m not recommending the recoil damper but it’s an interesting concept.

All I've ever done to reduce felt recoil on a 1911 is to install the small radius firing pin stop. Increasing the mainspring can do the same, but effects the trigger. With the small radius FPS, a lighter recoil spring can be used (indeed, with some loads - must be used). The effect is noticeable - especially with a "GI style" 1911.

For other designs like the Glock, my understanding is MarineHawk's explanation is correct.

Going really light, or really heavy on recoil springs, either way, can effect reliability, so it's not a bad idea to stay "middle of the road" when you can. As an example, Springfield Armory uses 9lb. recoil springs in their 9mm 1911s. Sounds like fun, right? Except SA also uses really tight chambers in their 9mms, and sometimes, even with factory ammo!, the slide won't close all the way. No bueno. I put 12lb. springs in my 9mm 1911s, problem solved. If you go the other way, using a really heavy spring, you get a lot of muzzle dip when the slide is slammed shut. Not just with 9mms, but with .45s, too.
It shows itself most with the new red dot sights, they really bounce around with too-heavy springs. I've been figuring all this out since buying a new double-stack Tisas 9mm with the red dot cut. I also swapped out the 23lb. mainspring for a 19lb. mainspring on this particular pistol, and it does seem to recoil a little more with the weaker spring. Colt, BTW, uses 14lb. recoil springs in both the 9mms and .38 Super pistols they make, although I think they use 19lb. mainsprings in both, too. All-steel guns recoil differently than alloy-framed pistols, though, so take that with some salt.

Balancing spring weights in 1911s is an art, I have a buddy who shoots his .45 with weak-azz springs and it's slicker than snot, but does recoil more than mine do, with the factory strength springs. His gun "tracks" a little better, maybe, but it gets beaten up more, too. It's an art to get them "just right", and I'm more of a clutz than most.

Good luck! I wish I could help more.

I've only recently been messing with my .45 ACP 1911 trying to manage recoil. I've set mine up for .45 Supers shooting 250gr hard cast, and according to my chrono getting just over 1100fps. The recoil is noticeable.

The heavier recoil spring slows the slide down, but also exerts more force coming back into battery, and results in muzzle dip.

My 38 Super is absolutely a pussycat to shoot, with 125gr. I believe it has a twenty pound recoil spring, but all else is factory Colt parts.

Like many things it can be a delicate balance. I'd suggest doing a flat firing pin stop or at least a reduced radius one first, then see which way to go with the recoil spring.

If I'm not mistaken, JMB started off with a flat firing pin stop, but was only using a 13# recoil spring. That was a long while ago, but using a flat FP stop, and lighter spring isn't a new idea.

You're not mistaken. There was a reason everyone went to the FPS we see commonly today. That wasn't JMB's idea, but it kinda made sense back in the day. Not so much now.

The reason the FPS was radiused was because the Army requested it be made easier to operate. To many delicate hands I suppose.

In my experience a 147 grain 9mm load has noticeably less snap during recoil. I believe if you buy a box of each and try them side by side you will notice the difference. I practice with 147 grain CCI Blazer brass or Federal American Eagle in my Glock 43. Carry ammo is 147 grain Federal HST. They both hit to the same point of aim.

Ron

Yes, and the reason it made sense is that the Army method of carry was empty chamber - or so I have been told. And racking the slide in a hurry for the first shot with the flat FPS apparently was judged to be a little too difficult in its intended use.

I’m way late on this thread for hospital reasons but maybe somebody will read my reply.
More power the cartridge has ( bullet weight depending ) the more recoil delivered to the gun ( weight depending ). With semi auto pistols the gun cycles, that is the slide retracts, extracts, ejects and strips a round from the mag to the chamber all under the mechanical force delivered by the recoil spring. The slide and spring are in affect using your recoil energy to pull this off. Unlike some long guns this energy and impact is not very dampening compared to shotguns which bleed off or use shell’s gas pressure to cycle the action. If you are shooting full power 9,40 or 45’s, whatever, then you’ll need to have a recoil spring installed that will prevent the slide from battering the frame or on light target/Bullseye loads a spring that still offers enough energy to cycle the pistol with very light target loads. It’s Newton’s Law.

It is Newton's Third Law of Motion that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. When a gun fires, the bullet goes one way, the gun the other–it's commonly known as recoil or kick.

Springs can run a wide spread of weights. The 1911 Colt for instance can run generally fro 20+ lbs all the way the 9- lbs. I know when I was competing both Bullseye and IPSC I had an inventory of somewhere around seven or eight different weights. Change your powder charge or bullet weight and you may benefit from a lighter or heavier spring. Springs are cheap and on full power loads so are buffers as they not only improve gun handling but prevent battering damage to the frame from hard slide impact. With a good well made and balanced pistol a shooter can work up his perfect load then tailor the right spring for the job until the gun is nicely balanced. For Colts an extra pound is insurance when things get dirty. Anybody can do it.

BTW though I’m out of the gunsmithing/lost income business I’m not as shy about opinions anymore and I do have a few on springs. Springs are metallurgy and design and after that there are no freebies. Unfortunately it’s almost impossible to visually identify high quality hardened and tempered steel flat or coiled springs. For me anyway I find quality boils down to cost and what the good mechanics are using. At 76 years of age I’m still too young or stupid to know the art of making good springs out of scrap metal like some can do. I do know though that coil main or recoil springs have a certain service life. With the 1911’s or High Powers and similar shooting mid to full power levels 3000-5000 rounds is generally the spring life. You can’t ever take a spring for granted in a good firearm

Rick