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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,264
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,264 |
Looks like blue steel and walnut went the way of the dinosaur.
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Thomas Jefferson
GeoW, The "Unwoke" ...Let's go Brandon!
"A Well Regulated Militia" Life Member
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,243
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
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I'll give you the change from tang safety and adjustable trigger was based on limiting cost, but I guarantee you that decision was made due to the increased cost of changing it to CRF. At best, the current CRF is running the same cost basis as the original pushfeed did back then. But again, that pushfeed was more expensive than the average pushfeed due to the fact it was still a direct variant of the Mauser 98 minus the CRF. The change from the tang safety to the MKII was a move away from the liability of the original (adjustable) M77 trigger, to the simpler, more cost effective MKII action. The removal of the bottom lip of the MKII PF to make it CRF (a couple years after the MKII's introduction), was not, as you claim, "far more costly." It's apparent you're pretty much making all this up as you go... If that's all they had to do for the conversion, but it was not. As for the liability part, if that was in fact the case and only reason to go away from it, why then do most manufacturers offer them currently? Maybe the M77 was a faulty design then, however, they have adjustable triggers in the American and have for years. If it wasn't any cheaper for the non-adjustable, what possible reason would they have to not use that same trigger in the Hawkeye (different version to fit the action of course) when so many people are constantly complaining to them about the non-adjustable trigger it currently has? You obviously are simply looking to ruffle some feathers- I do not care. I know I won't change your mind, and your opinion doesn't matter a bit to me or Ruger- nor does mine to Ruger for that matter. I actually make sure I know facts before talking about something rather than taking something me and my buddies did way back in the day to suit our needs and then just assume the manufacturer did the same and give it out as gospel. A little education goes a long way. Good day to you and best of luck. You are one dumb cluck .
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,927
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,927 |
In 1964 when Winchester went to PF it was a money saving feature. By the 1990's and CNC machining it isn't SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive to make CRF than PF. A little maybe, but that isn't why these cost more.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 320
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 320 |
Looks like blue steel and walnut went the way of the dinosaur. They still offer both together, although there are only a few options in just the African and Compact lineups. Certainly not what it was. The stainless/grey lam is only offered in Compact now as well. Traditionally the best seller (blued/walnut) and lately, the fastest selling (stainless/grey lam) have almost no representation in Ruger. Clearly they know something we don't, but as stated in one of previous posts, they don't seem to care much about any of our opinions. Still like them though, lol
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,508
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2005
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The M77, since it's conversion to CRF, was always marginal profit due to the fact that a CRF action is far more costly to produce than push feed. I'm not buying that one single bit. Ruger's "CRF," both MKII and Hawkeye, is just the original MKII action with the front bottom lip of the bolt ground flush to the bolt face. It was a simple conversion, and a lot of us did it before the CRF model was available from the factory. I'm also not buying the MKII action was any more expensive to produce than the original M77 action. I'd bet it was more economical to produce than the original M77 tang safety PF action with adjustable trigger. Since your last 2 sentences contradict ... When I read those two sentences, they are in complete agreement with each other.
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,521
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,521 |
At 8.1 pounds, they may be charging by weight.
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 320
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 320 |
In 1964 when Winchester went to PF it was a money saving feature. By the 1990's and CNC machining it isn't SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive to make CRF than PF. A little maybe, but that isn't why these cost more. Let me clarify what I was saying a bit more- The Ruger M77 action is more costly and time consuming to make than say a Rem 700 action. Ruger has always sold these (up until around 2020 give or take) for a much lower profit margin than anything else they regularly produce. Yes, they absolutely took advantage of the situation to raise the price, but it was (roughly, though a bit excessive) to levels they always should have been- as someone else stated, comparable to the Win 70 CRF model currently produced. I beleive this was in an effort to be able to continue to produce them, although at lower production rates, rather than do away with it altogether like the No. 1 and Red Label shotguns. There is still a huge following for the M77 action and they did not want to lose it, but could not afford to keep selling at the prices we are accustomed to. This was proven out with the demise of the No. 1 and Red Labels. The FTW is another story altogether. While the lower levels of the M77 lineup are higher than we would like, they are in line with competitors, but this one puts it up into semi custom territory, and I'm not sure theres an advantage there other than easy aquisition.
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 320
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 320 |
The M77, since it's conversion to CRF, was always marginal profit due to the fact that a CRF action is far more costly to produce than push feed. I'm not buying that one single bit. Ruger's "CRF," both MKII and Hawkeye, is just the original MKII action with the front bottom lip of the bolt ground flush to the bolt face. It was a simple conversion, and a lot of us did it before the CRF model was available from the factory. I'm also not buying the MKII action was any more expensive to produce than the original M77 action. I'd bet it was more economical to produce than the original M77 tang safety PF action with adjustable trigger. Since your last 2 sentences contradict ... When I read those two sentences, they are in complete agreement with each other. You are correct, I read it too fast and that was an error on my part- I missed the "than" part between "produce" and "the". However, it still did not change what our opposing views are, and minus that line, didn't change the dissagreement. I do however appreciate you bringing that to my attention.
Last edited by akgrant; 03/27/24.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,108
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,108 |
what is not to like with that rifle? I really like the ruger mk2 action. last weekend had the 22-250 licking its chops on some P dogs. its an early 2000's model. deep blue back when they actually did that. walnut stock. its a sexy rifle with an actual soul to it. the action feeds 22-250 like a fat chick giving a BJ on a first date. I recently had the firing pin bushed, which it badly needed. its always a good day when I have that going out smacking varmints.
what I DON'T like about the hawkeye is IMO the name is stupid! The other is they overly bead blast the action which makes the bolt not run as smooth, its more prone to show scratches. I miss the older more polished stainless models and of course the deep blue and walnut guns are always and always will be classics with a soul. but guess what no one would buy those anymore.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,004
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,004 |
Someone will be along shortly to explain how since some idiot is willing to blow his money on one, that it's the appropriate market based price.
In real life, companies see inflation and COVID and excitedly jack their prices because they now have someone to blame for their greed.
I watched it happen while working with factory management in 2020. Lol. You're not wrong...just that Adam Smith got kidnapped by American colluders Lol
Me
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,914
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,914 |
Looks like blue steel and walnut went the way of the dinosaur. They still offer both together, although there are only a few options in just the African and Compact lineups. Certainly not what it was. The stainless/grey lam is only offered in Compact now as well. Traditionally the best seller (blued/walnut) and lately, the fastest selling (stainless/grey lam) have almost no representation in Ruger. Clearly they know something we don't, but as stated in one of previous posts, they don't seem to care much about any of our opinions. Still like them though, lol Ruger being Ruger doesn't always offer something we all want. Sometimes they offer certain configurations, combinations, chamberings for a year or two then change it up. Otherwise we have the used market.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 03/27/24.
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