Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots 219 Donaldson Wasp

I often see that the brass for this cartridge can be made from 30-30 brass. I suspect that means that 219 Donaldson Wasp is limited to 30-30 pressures.

I see that there are two pressures listed for the 30-30:

Maximum pressure (CIP) 46,000 psi (320 MPa) European?

Maximum pressure (SAAMI) 42,000 psi (290 MPa) USA?

I'm wondering, historically, what pressures were maximum for the 219 Donaldson Wasp.

I suspect that anyone loading the 219 Donaldson Wasp is on their own.

I don't know the pressure rating but Waders posted a link to many old reloading manuals some time back. The Lyman manuals from the 1950s had data, if you are interested. I believe my Hornady #3 had data also.

Those old time wildcatters had no clue what pressures they were getting, and not much of a better idea what velocities they were getting either. "The fired cases aren't expanded too badly, and primers aren't pierced so I'm good to go." I was guilty of that too back in another lifetime when I messed with a .219 Wasp. "I'm at book max and the cases aren't sticking in the chamber (very much). Primers are flattened a bit, but hey, my brass is lasting me for a good three maybe four loadings." "The book says I'm getting 3500fps so it must be true." Guardian angels and idiots, and all that....

You can build a rimless .219 Donaldson Wasp using the 6.8 SPC case and get higher pressures. I'm not talking about the shorter rimless original Donaldson Wasp made from weak .25 or .30 Remington brass, but the later longer dimension version made from .219 brass. Then run it in a modern bolt action mini-action at 55,000 psi if you want. The resulting neck is shorter, but still a good length. The .219 Donaldson Wasp had a very long neck to house the wad...which you don't use. Velocities would be midway between .224 Valkyrie and .22 Nosler velocities. Case capacity would be midway between them.

It seems that even the reloading companies were clueless as to pressure back then. Some of the Lyman loads listed velocities that were very hot. I am talking loads on the heels of modern .22-250 loads.

I have a couple old manuals that have that cartridge, but I trust them about as much as the old #6 SPEER.
Maybe load data has some load information…
I’m thinking of using case capacity, finding a cartridge with as close to that capacity as possible, finding pressures in the 45,000 CUP range and do some math to get “maximum” loads. Work up to that load carefully looking for pressure signs. If it looks good to go fire that load 10 times and reject the load if the case doesn’t hold up. Reduce a grain or more and start over. Then use velocity as the key for maximum.

I’d look primarily at 50 to 55 grain bullets.

I am looking at a rifle (on-line) that looks very interesting. I’m not particularly interested in top velocity but more in best accuracy and use the maximum as a limit, not a goal. The model of the rifle is an 1885 Winchester. I don’t think that rifle would be the limiting factor for pressure, but the cases would be.

My luck the bore is shot out.

Keep us posted. I've entertained the idea of a 219 DW several times. I have an extra Hornet single shot that I've seriously thought of converting. I would keep at 30-30/30-30AI pressure levels for you would still have a great velocity increase. And the 30-30 case is plenty strong. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir on the issue with 30-30 "cases" is with the typical lever actions they are chambered in, not the case strength.

You could look at the Hodgdon website load data, select .219 Wasp then tick 55 grains and look at the powder as H4895 and maximum load of 28 grains and velocity of 3501 fps in a 28 inch barrel, then subtract 25 fps for each inch your barrel is less than 28 inches.

The Hornady site has Donaldson data in the obsolete data section.


https://static.hornady.media/site/hornady/files/obsolete-data/219-donaldson-wasp.pdf

You might find this book interesting.

https://www.amazon.com/Yours-Truly-Harvey-Donaldson/dp/093563200X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3VJZAT7XAOCVM&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.XxQS94qy6bUhAO-n_nNnF5zLvPiN9P1TIJgtBbpmqjQjBDAdfMOCgCfBk_7wx8pSkWD08UdVG0wgwgXaTy4f5g.2kFRpuz-vOJ2siQSN6Xpatre2300gvnHH69p2tmntVw&dib_tag=se&keywords=yours+truly+harvey+donaldson&qid=1711593527&sprefix=yours+truly+harvey+donaldson%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-1

IIRC, there are two Wasps, differing in length by rim thickness, which was left out of the overall length on one published drawing. This difference in capacity may matter in hot loads, especially when you don't now which version was used for the data, or which yours is.

Bruce

dies and some loaded rounds free to good home

Heck, I'll take the rounds and dyes if available. That would push me into converting a 22H.

The cases wont be a problem. That is a myth that has been told and retold. I shot a Wasp for 40 years. Was a 1950FN action with a 28 inch Pfieffer barrel. I didn't baby it. I used the max listed loads from all the old manuals. I NEVER had a case head expand or primer pocket loosen. All case failures were via neck splits. About 4000 rounds total. This was with dominion brass and in later years some WW 25-35. Some chrono dope - 30gr 4895, 50 gr Speer -3755 fps. Same load with 52 sierra - 3725 fps. Those rimmed cases are very strong at the head, witness some wildcats on the 30-40 case. Unfortunately I don't have the rifle any more.

Bugger, curious if you bought the rifle?

I picked up a 219 wasp not too long ago and am having some trouble figuring out where to get started with it. I did a chamber cast which told me that it's a short chambering, and am planning on reaching out to bullberry for a form die and hopefully a FL die but you pretty much need a case to start with to ensure the form die is set up properly. Trying to figure out how to get started and was also wondering if anyone knows if the wilson case gauge is a short or long chambering - they haven't responded to my request yet.

This, mine is the short version. So I'm not going to max loads, until I chrono some others.
Redding can furnish dies in both lengths.

The rifle is still for sale on Guns International.

I will be going to the Tulsa show this coming week end. My friends and I will have 6 tables. Hopefully I’ll come home with more $’s than I’ll be taking.
Anyone coming to the show? Our tables will be along the north wall on the top level. Biggest show in the USA.

Things I think I’ll be bringing:
Flints, etc BP
243 brass
222 ammo
35 Rem brass
03-A3 (customized in the 50’s or 60’s)
700 270 (90’s vintage)
Savage 99 - 250 (nice)
RE26
Weaver scopes: K4, K6, K10
RCBS Rock Chucker?
Bullets - 358’s, .375’s, 224’s, 308’s, & 277’s
12 gauge shells - lead shot heavy loads - great for pheasants
Maybe a couple more rifles or shotguns - still looking for stuff to sell.

If I stumbled onto a fine old rifle, I might go down such a rabbit hole, but otherwise I see no earthly reason to do so. The .22 caliber is pretty well covered now across the entire spectrum of uses and platforms. I’ve read a piece or two on the .219 D, along with a bunch of the other similar wildcats, and IIRC it was fairly troublesome. Some see that as an interesting challenge, but I see a lot of trouble to no purpose, the situation above excepting.

I recently acquired all the parts for loading 5.7x28, and cranked out some, but now that gear is reserved for SHTF, as it’s too much work for too little benefit, especially as 5.7 ammo costs are dropping.

There are a surprising number of 219 wasp examples on guns international for sale. I'm envious that you're going to Tulsa, maybe you'll find a gem of one there too.

I shoot a 219 Wasp (long version) in an OTT Contender barrel. Haven't checked velocity yet but it is amazingly accurate and a joy to shoot. I have a setback die set for 30/30 based wildcats and Redding forming dies. No problem forming or loading
Safe shooting
Doug


SETBACK DIE SET