Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Moving the accelerants out of the house

I have been thinking for a while about the 50 some pounds of smokeless powder and untold thousands of rounds of ammunition stored in the house in case of a fire.

My wife's sister's refrigerator quit, so we moved it into our garage.

I still have to figure a way to make it resistant to theft. I might consider wrapping a couple chains around it. But that is a bit tacky. Or possibly building a plywood cabinet around it with a hasp and padlock, which would be much more attractive.

There is still a bunch of ammo in my gun room. But a lot less than before. And all the primers are out of the gun safe. Dessicant packs are incoming.

Damn.

No room for beer.

Neat idea! Lots of storage with good visibility. Does the ice maker spit out bullets? LOL.

Used to be every shop on a farm around had an old fridge for the welding rods and cow medicine.

Room for beer, the refrig quit didn't your read about that part ? Who likes room temperature beer ? The British, I know.

Cool.

I've heard that it was once popular to use a broken upright freezer or combo as a gun safe. Many of them used to come with a key lock. When I was a kid, we had an old upright freezer with a key lock that would have worked well for that.

If you're going to build a plywood enclosure, why not just build in a bunch of shelves and scrap the fridge? That would be equally secure and have more shelf space.

People worry about this stuff, but have they ever tossed an old couch or living room chair on a bonfire and saw how fast all the plastic based materials it's made of go up?

Or, better yet, been involved with the fire service and been through the training or a few house fires?

Unless your powder and ammo is THE seat of the fire, what amount most reloaders have in storage won't make a tinker's damn to the outcome of the situation. Your entire house is full of potential accelerants.

The same concerns have rattling around here.
Our daughters closet would burn really well when the flames it the shelves.😉

What's been on my mind the most is loaded guns.
The powder, primers, and ammo would put on a nice show.
The propane bottles and acetylene might make nice grand finalizes,
but the handguns and AR could be deadly.
Positioning to point them into the basement makes sense, but how to
be sure they stay that way in a hot fire, without elaborate steel structures?

I’ve often wondered how most guys store powder safely. Mine is pretty much in closets but I know it’s certainly not the best. I really don’t have a detached structure to store it, and worried about the extreme temperatures of my attached garage. No good way I suppose without it being removed from the house.

Cool and dry, and in a non contained structure.

Just take a look at how retail stores store and display powders. Do you think their insurance policies and or local fire codes don't have a say in how it's stored or displayed?

Climate controlled, open shelving, or boxes that won't contain pressure. A locked steel cabinet is the worst possible way.

I don't really worry about my powder and primers too much in the house but I have always been a fan of a detached garage. Gas cans, solvents, small engine work etc - all things that might start a fire - I'd rather lose the garage than the house and garage.

You moved the powder from the house to the garage why?

as long as you keep the powder in the original containers they just go PHoooooof in a house fire, primers just go bang and cause no damage as long as they are not contained in something and if the loaded ammo goes off it won't even penetrate you skin unless your sitting on it.

Stored properly none of the items pose any sort of a problem. Keep in mind if you put a padlock on the fridge you're going to produce more pressure than you would have if the containers of powder were sitting in the open.

Maybe put biohazard stickers on it.

If the garage is attached it's a moot point

I fertilized my lawn with a pound of 4F black powder I’d had sitting around for years. I had bought it years back when I first got into flintlocks to prime the pan. I quickly figured out I could use 3F for most everything.

Unlike smokeless, black power WILL explode in a house fire.

You can add local sprinkler heads to your normal plumbing.

Basically... you tap into your existing plumbing... run a new line and install the heads.

Won't meet NFPA code but it works just fine.

I was going to comment on the security aspect. Yes, you've got a lot of money tied up in powder, components, and handliads but who's gonna steal that stuff?

If my house starts on fire, I don't want it to stall, I want it to burn to the ground. I've seen the devastation the fire departments cause to structures trying to put out fires. I'd rather it all go.

Insulation!

The garage is well insulated, with an insulated door. But it still suffers pretty severe temperature swings from night to day. Day time temp is aggravated by two working freezers and a refrigerator in the garage.

Storing powder and ammo inside a refrigerator will stabilize those temp swings.

Do those temp swings affect the powder/primer in some way?

Yep and since it doesnt meet code insurance companies wont cover damages if the sprinkler head decides to puke and flood the area which they do. Fun to wake up in the morning or come home and find a river going out the garage.

Zombies and their slaves when the Zombie Pockalips hits.

Duh.

I do believe our own Mule Deer has written about his experiences.

If I recall correctly, he stores his (for the most part?) in old ice chests in the unheated garage.

I have some of mine stored that way, and some is in the well house where I have a messy reloading setup I need to get to cleaning for spring. The well house is kept above freezing in winter and being insulated runs a couple of degrees cooler than ambient in the summer.

I wouldn't do anything other than a hasp but that might make someone more interested on what is in the fridge. Also, maybe a goldenrod inside for moisture control.

I'm just thinking - the powder rides an unheated truck to the warehouse/distribution. Purchased and rides another to be delivered at home. Loaded, sits in the rifle during all kinds of weather. I get that temp, at that point, affects performance but does temp affect the potential performance prior to getting ignited at shot time?

Not poking - just thinking out loud. I'm probably not super concerned about temp control at home.

In the OP, I purposely used the word "accelerant", not explosive.

Yes, I have tossed a match into a half pound or pound of loose smokeless powder on occasion. It goes up pretty quickly.

I got tired of imagining how quickly fifty plus one pound cans would combust, and what that would do to the internal temps of the house, and also the nearby gun safe in case in the, God Forbid, case the house does burn. Not to mention the fumes generated while two old crippled farts are trying to escape a burning house.

Also, 10,000 primers inside a fire safe kind of defeats the purpose of it being a fire safe.

The fridge has magnetic seals. That is primarily why it was chosen. A chain around the fridge would not prevent those doors from venting pressure. All they need is to open 1/2 inch. But a thief can not extract the contents through a 1/2" opening.

Even if I enclose it in 1/2 inch plywood, the doors would have room to crack open in an emergency, and the lightly nailed top would blow off with 1/2 pound of internal pressure.

A five gallon can of gas or, kerosene if you want a nonvolatile fuel for comparison is about thirty five pounds of fuel. But I don't think that is such a great idea to store inside the house either.

Have you considered taking up shooting as a hobby?

I’ve been asking family and friends to save freezers for me for many years.

I have repurposed two 21 cubic ft Upright freezers for storing welding rods and other tools and testing equip. Things mainly I do not want mud daubers to fill every gap on.

Uprights are great, all of the wire shelves.

The subfreezing temps of winter do not concern me nearly as much as the 100 degree plus days of summer. Some of this stuff has already been in my possession for ten years. Some of the powder stored here is still in square paper cans from Hogdons. 1970s? Earlier?

Who knows how much longer the components will be in my possession or my heir's?

It is believed that long term exposure to heat will degrade the performance of smokeless powder or ammunition.

That was my first wish. But this refer fell in my lap.

Yeah you dumb s hit…..go ahead and broadcast it to the world! Send Jesse Watters some photos snd he’ll put on his show! Dumbass!!

It is not.

Our fire dept is all volunteer, but they do have a respectable response time. I think they could keep the house from burning if the garage was ignited. Providing some one saw the fire and called them.

If you are on this forum, any body that matters already knows.

I was strictly commenting on the fire aspect. Folks look at a pound of powder and a box of primers and think hellfire, damnation, and nuclear explosion. That ain't how it works, unless it's contained.

As far as security, if they get past the toothy fearless pitbull and his two rather large and obnoxious mutt buddies, and past my security alarm system, and past me, then maybe they can just go on and take the damn stuff.

I spent 25 years working Fire Rescue. We had 3 shifts rotating every 24 hours in the fire station. We didn't store any accelerants in the fire station. But we did have 3 refrigerators in the station. One for each shift. All 3 had hasp's with a pad lock. It will secure your stuff pretty good. If one got left open all the good stuff would disappear in a hurry.

Methheads!

Our farm property, where we lived until four years ago, had one mile of dirt road access, with no other avenue of escape. If someone was in there stealing schitt, and we came up the driveway, they were stuck.

Still, copper wire, aluminum irrigation siphon tubes, and scrap iron all disappeared over time. Anything the animals think they might be able to sell to someone, even for a penny on the dollar. They don't care, as long as it gets them closer to their next fix.

ATVs.



One of the biggest scourge of situations like yours.
And even if you come home, chances they slip out, or you can't catch them.

I had a wonderful smoker, given to me by my landlady in college when I moved up the hill with my wife, made out of the shell of an old fridge. One of her old boyfriends had ripped the guts and insulation out, cobbled in some wire shelves, and whammer jammer, a big smoker. Did a good number of turkeys and a lot of $1 a lb albacore fresh from the docks. wish I had another one.

Sprinkler heads do not just "puke". That is false narrative.

.

If you think that safe is going to do you any good in a house fire I suggest you do some research on the subject so you can know what to expect. Ask Salmonella what it did to his BIL's gun collection. (I believe it was sal anyways)

Plain and simple, unless you build a custom concrete gun safe if you have a house fire your F'ed royal, it's just the way it is.

I have seen the contents of a couple of safes that went through fires.

In these cases, the contents were salvaged with some cleanup, and refinishing of the wood.

One must remember, fire safes do not protect via insulation. They protect the contents of the safe via water production. As the drywall in the safe heats, it produces copious amounts of water vapor. Water vapor displaces Oxygen inside the safe and prevents combustion of contents.

That is why safes are rated for a specific period of time at a specific temperature.

The hotter the fire, the faster the gypsum in the safe is consumed. Another good reason to remove fuel sources from the vicinity of the safe.

Many problems arise when a heavy safe falls into a basement during a fire and becomes inaccessible for days. The contents are thoroughly water logged from the aforementioned water production. Some additional water may enter due to fire fighting efforts. Hell, sometimes the safe is left submerged in the basement.

Usually damage done to guns in a good safe is water damage. That can be minimized by quick retrieval, oil, and elbow grease.

I did it as a career for over 30 years myself. The joke was one could leave a $100 bill and a pound of butter on the table, go on your 4 days off and when you came back the $100 will still be there but the butter will be gone! I also did 11+ as a volunteer where food wasn't an issue but good, reliable flashlights occasionally disappeared.

That said, there is little added fire risk regarding the amount of components I saw. Those shooting the various shotgun disciplines have far more on hand. I've been on more than one house fire where the owner was an enthusiastic reloader and we gave the "risk" little thought, even when the reloading room/area was involved. The primers will make a lot of popping noises and the powder will burn but not any more than a couch or Lazy Boy recliner. I had a lot more concern over those items plus any aerosol cans or sealed, partially filled containers of liquid.

Twice I've been on the scene of a fire involving a place that sold reloading components on the retail end. Once in my jurisdiction and once on mutual aid. Neither incident had any real concern regarding the components though those who gained their knowledge through Hollywood were more skittish than normal. That SAAMI video is telling as was the one made by Federal Cartridge much earlier. I knew a lot of the firefighter's involved in the Federal video.

Loaded ammo is another non-issue, if/when it cooks off there is only a pop and maybe a brief sparkle. If anything moves it will be the primer being ejected from the case. Its light weight makes it virtually impossible to cause injury. A round in the chamber and a loaded magazine or a revolver with a loaded cylinder is another story. There are documented cases of loaded guns firing when hot enough causing injury and even deaths. I have been in two fires where a revolver fired in such situations. No injuries and the report was muffled and not recognized as such at the time by being in a drawer and the various other noises in a fire.

Basically, the take away of this is that anyone thinking they are making things safer by moving their reloading components out of the house are mostly fooling themselves. There are many other common every day items that are far more hazardous that are overlooked and taken for granted by homeowners. The worry should be more on preventing a fire. That would be far more productive than trying to limit its growth. Particularly in this day and age where synthetic (read petroleum based) materials are so prevalent. If you can find it, the video " Firepower" is a good watch. I would try to post a link but I have not seen it available online. The last time I looked one could order it through their library for free. It shows how a fire doubles roughly every 2 minutes in free burn. And that was in a time natural materials were more prevalent.

So, if one wishes to move their components and ammo out of the house go for it. At best it will offer minimal fire security but it could help in reducing clutter and free up space for other things.

Most damage inside safes that I have seen was caused by smoke (actually "products of combustion" as smoke is mostly ash and the other includes smoke as well as all the other garbage produced in a fire but I'll use smoke as it is easier to write) entering the safe before temps got hot enough to expand and seal the door. This, combined with the water vapor exuded by the gypsum and any that enter prior to the seals activating, combine to produce sulfuric acid along with other compounds that will rust, etch, or otherwise damage that which it contacts. And the smoke residue is a bear to get off. Its been maybe two decades since safe manufacturers began using low temperature activating seals on some safes but even today they are not found on all safes. At least one can purchase low temp seal kits from the manufacturer as replacements.