The one about the forest led me into this hour long video about the flood. It’s about a 30 mile trip to the NPS site, and I always find it interesting. My paternal Grandmother lived in Hornerstown, my Old Man worked 37 years in the Bethlehem Steel Mill over there. I have a few ties to the city. This touches on the dog memorialized in the City Park, but that occurred in the 1936 flood, which my Mom survived. It was the River backing up, the water didn’t have much force. Everything I see about this blamed the SFF&H Club. Maybe the dam should have been better maintained, but in all honesty, that was a once in 500 years storm. The water was already running waist deep in the streets, and an earthen dam was never gonna hold with that much water backed up. You can only leave Johnstown going down grade by following the Conemaugh River. Every other route is uphill. Many of them are steep.. I heard that they recovered a couple of bodies in Cincinnati from the Ohio River in 1977. One has to wonder how many people were completely lost, and no trace found. Reon Johnstown Flood Documentary
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
The one about the forest led me into this hour long video about the flood. It’s about a 30 mile trip to the NPS site, and I always find it interesting. My paternal Grandmother lived in Hornerstown, my Old Man worked 37 years in the Bethlehem Steel Mill over there. I have a few ties to the city. This touches on the dog memorialized in the City Park, but that occurred in the 1936 flood, which my Mom survived. It was the River backing up, the water didn’t have much force. Everything I see about this blamed the SFF&H Club. Maybe the dam should have been better maintained, but in all honesty, that was a once in 500 years storm. The water was already running waist deep in the streets, and an earthen dam was never gonna hold with that much water backed up. You can only leave Johnstown going down grade by following the Conemaugh River. Every other route is uphill. Many of them are steep.. I heard that they recovered a couple of bodies in Cincinnati from the Ohio River in 1977. One has to wonder how many people were completely lost, and no trace found. Reon Johnstown Flood Documentary
Very interesting history. Been all over. Not far at all from the homestead
The caretaker warned the club that dam maintenance needed to be done and they refused. It had problems going back to when it was built that were never addressed.
I had just turned 14. But we saw a good bit of the ‘77 flood. My Grandma lived in Hornerstown, and with the phone lines down Dad took us 3 boys and we went to check on her. Route 56 was completely washed out above Windber. But Dad knew the secondary road’s good enough to get us about 2 miles away. We had to walk in from there. Every street was waist deep in fast moving water. They had ropes tied across. Dad warned Gue and I to hang on those ropes or God knows where we’d end up!😀 Grandma was ok. Other than a flooded cellar and some bumps in her 72 Plymouth. There was an extra house on her block. It was washed down the street and snagged on a corner! We spent a lot of time going through the stuff she had in the cellart. Did you know a roll of toilet paper under water will swell to 4 or 5 times it’s original size when dry?😀 While there, we occasionally did a little sightseeing of the damage. I saw a guy with a brand spanking new Cadillac, windows down, and he was shoveling mud and water into the interior! Guess he was having trouble with payments and saw an opportunity to cash in instead of having it repoed, so I can’t really blame him!😀 Reon
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
I read a book about Somerset County history a while back. I got it from the library in Winder. I remember one chapter that told the true story of two brothers near Jennerstowm that were tried convicted and hanged for the robbery and murder of another resident. But since it occurred the week after the flood, everyone forgot about it!
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
I read a book about Somerset County history a while back. I got it from the library in Winder. I remember one chapter that told the true story of two brothers near Jennerstowm that were tried convicted and hanged for the robbery and murder of another resident. But since it occurred the week after the flood, everyone forgot about it!
I believe it, parts of Somerset are like the Appalachian Mountains lol. I have friends in Jennerstown, Boswell, Seven Springs and Hidden Valley areas.....know the area well, used to have a house up there.
We went to the museum and dam a couple years ago with a group, first time for me.
It was outstanding.
Was only 8 in 1977, our basement got 4' of water just from the crick flooding. Never a drop before or since.
Since we are talking history, our local counties, and I know you are a buff...
Reading our family history, my Great, Great..opened the first school in Somerset County. Except it wasn't Somerset. It was Bedford County!
Somerset was split off because of travel time. Any business at all had to be done in Bedford, and worthwhile retail had to be done in Chambersburg.
Imagine that trip? With corduroy being the best road you woul see! The number of times you cross the same damn river... It's a trip for us now.😂😂😂
Leads to the Whiskey Rebellion...another topic.
Anyway, Fulton was also split off of Bedford County. As were parts of Cambria, Blair, and Huntington counties.
Think about voting. Today we have to have mail in voting, for regular people, because a few minutes in a motorized vehicle and a few more waiting are just too big an inconvenience.
Great, Great, had to saddle a workhorse and ride 30 miles with no roads over ridges and rivers, in the woods, to get to the polls. And back. It had to have taken a good chunk out of his week! And they did it. Proudly and gladly.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
I had a cousin who lived in Ogeltown, and he traced the family back to a fellow named Thomas Oldham who got off a boat in Philadelphia in 1754. One of his sons opened the first sawmill in Bedford County, which at that time was comprised of parts or whole of 5 other future Counties. He also killed wolves for the bounty on them at that time. Bill had the whole Oldham clan covered. Unfortunately he was killed in a car wreck. I loaned my copy to Dad and I never got it back.😟 I remember the flood of 77 very well. I set out on the porch of home just south of P-ville watching the rain and thunderstorm. It stalled over the area, dumped almost a foot of rain in 24 hours. Dad took Mom to the doctor in the morning, and turned on the news at noon. WJAC outta Johnstown was off the air. We switched it to channel 10 from Altoona and learned of the flooding. They showed a clip of the stop light on Messenger and Horner street. The water was two feet below the light. Dad got on the phone to check on Grandma, and the line was dead to Johnstown. He got Dave And Gue and I in the car and headed for Hornerstown. 56 was completely washed out at Scalp Level hill. The creek that runs between 56 and Windber was full of cars and mail jeeps. There was one Chevy pickup that was upset against a big tree, and the current had bent it into an horseshoe!😳 We backtracked and went up through Elton and finally got into Oakland around 3 o’clock. From there we were on foot. The water was down, but still about chest deep on Gue and I, but we made it to Pine Street and Grandma’s place about 4. Like I said Other than the cellar and a couple dings on her car, she was fine. The water stopped at the second step on her cellar steps, and her living space was not affected. She wasn’t about to leave, “or those damn spooks will steal everything.”😀 Dave spent the night with her and Dad took us two youngest boys home. We went back the next day and started going through her cellar. A few days later Dad and Dave took the wrecker and went over. By then you could drive down to Pine St. some guy contracted Dad to haul the disabled cars from Johnstown up to Richland at $25 a pop. I don’t remember how many he recovered, but he had a nice payday coming, he thought.😀 That guy skipped town! Dad and a couple other wrecker operators got completely hosed! He bought a couple of those cars when the insurance companies had a big auction the end of August. One 4 door Pontiac had floated around, bending up the body, but that 350 ran like a raped ape!😀 Me and Gue beat the heck out of it! Hard to believe how many years have flown by since then!😀 Reon
Last edited by 7mmbuster; 03/30/24.
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
Dad had died in 72, we lived where mom does now in 77. That flood in the basement destroyed our freezer, all the food in it, and a bunch Mom had canned. It covered almost everything in the basement. Ruined our winter clothes, a lot.
Mom was living on SS for us kids, not much, as a logger, farmer Dad never made much. And her rural beauty shop. Things were tight, the losses were bad.
She had started seeing my step Dad the previous fall. He showed up, got me over to Pap's, by Isabell's place, to be out of the way. They they worked for a couple days pumping water and shoveling 8 inches of mud out of the basement.
Mom was all torn up over what she lost, more so on the need to replace it and no money to do that.
Finally Dad (step) loaded her up and drove her to Johnstown. They toured the area, he the looked at her and told her to look around. "You lost a lot, but look at these people, they lost everything they own."
That helped Mom put it in perspective.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
i slept thru the '77 flood, i was 4 or 5 yo at the time. my mom and dad had a 1/2 of house on Hunky Hill in Creslow (St. Micheal). we had about an inch or two of water in the basement. my mom's parents had a 1/2 of house (the other 1/2 was my great aunt and uncle) right on the corner of State route 869 and 4th Street. anyway, they had someone else's truck crash and demolish the front porch. they also had water and mud on their first floor.
the next day the Army helicopter flew in some water and other stuff.
my other grandfather and my dad (RIP) had a construction company and the state needed to find how many barrels were lost, so my dad had a boat and collected the trashed barrels to give to the state. the state gave them bonus for every barrel was ten dollars. my grandfather bought a new dump truck and new backhoe with the bonus. most of the construction companies from the area, the state did not want. they prefer out of state workers to do the job. there stands people who live in this area, are construction workers with vehicles (oh i don't know, backhoes, dump trucks and such), not able to do anything. pappy chewed Rep. John Mutha (who was his friend) ears off till he got some of the jobs.
Tanneryville was the worst hit by the flood, around half of 85 people died there, some where never found. it rained about 12" in 10 hours and the largest dam was the earthen bound Laural Run dam (Tanneryville) and when that broke, a wall of water hit Tanneryville and continued on the Conemaugh River (they met right down below Johnstown) and the two walls of water stopped and it backed in on oneself (which made river higher and Johnstown was in it) then the rivers goes down into the Conemaugh Valley.
By looking around Hornerstown, Moxham , and especially towards downtown, we realized that Grandma was very lucky indeed. She had a pile of stuff to throw out. She was a hoarder, and surviving the depression caused that in a lot of folks her age. I mainly remember being awestruck at the damage water with a powerful current could do! Where 56 comes off the hill to Windber, the ground was completely gone for hundreds of feet. 56 was just a ribbon of pavement, hanging in mid air. Seeing that pickup bent double by the force of the current too. I could grasp things floating and getting tossed around, but to witness what the force of that water had done surely impressed the heck outta me.
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
Despite living 30 miles from Jtown my whole life I never really got the floods until we went to the museum. The topography isn't obvious in real life, until you grasp it, then it's obvious. The town sits in a funnel with a small slit in its side. Once the capacity of that slit is reached, doom is the only option.
The 1889 flood was such a high volume that it started a swirling, whirlpool effect. The water didn't just blow through town, it hit the sides and swirled around.
In the OP Reon mentioned missing folks not found. Between the around of earth and debris, and the fire falling the flood, it's easy to imagine bodies buried deep, or incinerated.
Firess following floods aren't at all uncommon, even if the concept is ironic. Remember Grand Fork ND some years ago? It flooded very badly, then caught fire and burnt.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
I can’t find anything that will back me up, but I believe that there were 2 people who disappeared that night in 77. Considering that 2 victims were recovered in Cincinnati from the Ohio, that’s not a great big stretch for me to grasp. Wonder how many miles by River that would be, but I figure there’s plenty of places that could hide a body with no one the wiser. But even if I’m wrong, the fact that 2 fished out of the Ohio, one has to wonder how many disappeared without a trace in 1889?! In that mass of kindling packed into the stone bridge and the resulting fire, Lord alone knows how many went up in smoke! I don’t know. Maybe witnessing the 77 flood, maybe not. But I have always found that flood of 1889 sorta fascinating. I remember reading about it long before 1977. But sitting here thinking about Hornerstown and Moxham in the late ‘70s , and considering what both neighborhoods are right now… Maybe rebuilding that dam at South Fork and flushing the commode again wouldn’t be a horrible idea after all.😟
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
Do you know Rod Hoffman? He lives walking distance from that bar! He and I hunted together quite a few times, but it’s been a while now.
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
i moved to Windber when i was 10 or 11yo, so i don't know him. my grandfather's company (Creslow Construction) did a water main line near the 1889 Park and in Palestine Road (Salix). after work, we head to Ferney's everyday for a drink or two or more. if he drank, i probably know of him, but i just don't remember. my mom's family was Loris and Helen Varner. Loris' son, Rick Varner is the Magistrate. he used to be a cop and a car accident reconstruction guy.
Last edited by tdoyka; 03/31/24.
"Russia sucks." ---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B
Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".
Ferney’s is his main haunt! You e probably run into him there. Rod’s a pretty good guy, except when he called me a “greasy wop ”!😀 (I’m English, German and Hunky)😀 I was up to see him before hunting season, but I believe he’s staying closer to home now. We used to hunt Pleasantville Mountain together.
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
the Pleasantville Mountain i only hunted one time. i'd say it's an 88 degree slope and you have a rifle in one hand, tree on the other and your feet are hurting on the side being dug in with every step. since my dad died, dad and i would ride around Babcock Forest, from Beaverdale to Dunlo to Central City and then to Ogletown. back in the day, dad and i would hunt that. being that he had bad back and a bum leg and i had stroke that left me with my right side was around 20% good, we would ride around with our mobile deer stand aka Ford 250. we would always come home empty handed. we see deer, but we couldn't take the prisoner and then load the deer in the bed of the truck and then shoot the deer. we just ride around drinking coffee and eating snacks. seeing deer was just a bonus. besides, i ain't getting out of the nice warm mobile deer stand!!!
"Russia sucks." ---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B
Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".
My Aunt was in the 1977 flood. I think she was in late high school or just out of high school. My dad's family is from the Somerset Johnstown area. He moved to Wyoming after he was done with his service during Vietnam. We would go back and visit family every few years or so. Blough is the family name. He went to school at Conemaugh township and was from Hollsopple. I still have some cousins in the Windber and Johnstown area.
We toured the flood museum quite a while back. Very interesting history. I saw a documentary on the history channel I think a while ago as well.
From 56 north towards the pipeline it’s dang steep, but there’s old logging roads that go down at a angle, and other than trees blown across, it’s not bad walking. A fellow can see down over and take his time. Further north from the pipeline, it’s not that steep and it’s nice hunting. We would usually leave a ride at the road down below and hunt down to it. Each of us has their own hollow to hunt, and we all come together at the vehicle. But the trouble is the deer ain’t up there like they were 15 years ago. Most have moved down to the hollows and valleys where there’s corn and an orchard or two. I like to hunt it, but now it’s just a walk in the woods for old time’s sake!😀 We used to kill deer up there, but it’s been probably 15 years since the the last one we drug down. Reon
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
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and you have a rifle in one hand, tree on the other and your feet are hurting on the side being dug in with every step. since my dad died, dad and i would ride around Babcock Forest, from Beaverdale to Dunlo to Central City and then to Ogletown. back in the day, dad and i would hunt that. being that he had bad back and a bum leg and i had stroke that left me with my right side was around 20% good, we would ride around with our mobile deer stand aka Ford 250. we would always come home empty handed. we see deer, but we couldn't take the prisoner and then load the deer in the bed of the truck and then shoot the deer. we just ride around drinking coffee and eating snacks. seeing deer was just a bonus. besides, i ain't getting out of the nice warm mobile deer stand!!!