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Joined: Oct 2006
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At least I think it was one of the European countries that did that.
And not positive that is was goats that they shot, but I think it was. Extensive testing....I guess they were testing to see what was a better cartridge, more lethal than existing ammo. Military application? Not sure...maybe just law enforcement application.
Anyway....I'm trying to get a few details on that testing. Especially the location of the testing. Probably took place between 1940 and 1955...not sure.
Any time the argument abt. the best self defense cartridge and best defensive bullet comes up, especially in terms of Marshall and Sanow's book on "One Shot Stops" comes up, the mention of the goat testing comes up. Sorta like the infamous "MIami shootout!!"...
Where/when did that testing occur?
"Thanks, folks"....
FjLee
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Joined: Mar 2008
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n 1991, a privately funded research group began studying the physiological effects of bullet impact on medium-sized animals. The primary objective was to isolate the physical mechanism responsible for rapid incapacitation of man-sized targets. This became known as what some consider the mythical—meaning, never happened—Strasbourg Tests. Supposedly, 611 goats were terminated, generating 580 valid tests, providing average incapacitation times for the most popular defensive handgun loads at that time.
The Strasbourg Tests had two important findings. First; frangible bullets like the Glaser Safety Slug and hollowpoints that violently expand and transfer a great deal of energy very quickly produce the fastest incapacitation times. Second; when bullets impact ribs—this happens about 50 percent of the time in defensive shootings—incapacitation times are usually increased.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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As a body of knowledge, all these handgun effectiveness studies are a bunch of crap. They give people who like to demonstrate how smart they are something to base their arguments on. They give people who like to play with guns an opportunity to do it extensively, usually with someone else footing the bill and usually someone paying them to do it.
Within reason, the only factor that matters is the man behind the gun, his skill and his willingness and resolve to prosecute the encounter.
Mathew 22: 37-39
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Campfire Ranger
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45,10 mm, 357 Sig/mag, 40 cal then 9mm.
What? Somebody had to start the carnage.😆
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Back in the early 20th Century the US military conducted stopping power trials by shooting live goats and/or cows. IIRC the animals were anesthetized first.
It was determined that a .45 ACP firing a 230 gr. FMJ could hit a goat in the hoof and still spin it around twice and throw it backward several feet...
Okay, that last part may be a slight exaggeration but they really did test with live animals.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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1904 US Army tests on animals and cadavers : Thompson-LaGarde TestsCrude tests of various handgun calibers on cattle, horses and cadavers by Colonel John T. Thompson and Major Louis Anatole LaGarde.
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Campfire Tracker
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As a body of knowledge, all these handgun effectiveness studies are a bunch of crap. They give people who like to demonstrate how smart they are something to base their arguments on. They give people who like to play with guns an opportunity to do it extensively, usually with someone else footing the bill and usually someone paying them to do it.
Within reason, the only factor that matters is the man behind the gun, his skill and his willingness and resolve to prosecute the encounter. Iron Truth, especially the 'willingness and resolve' point.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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As to the donated cadavers, were they all the same weight and height? I doubt it. Those old tests had a lot of variables in them. But hey I’ll give them credit for trying.
Speed, think 357 mag or 357 Sig, 5.7 and the other bottle necked rounds. Or plain old blunt force think 45’s.
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45,10 mm, 357 Sig/mag, 40 cal then 9mm.
What? Somebody had to start the carnage.😆 My favorite is pony soldier caliber .45 Colt affectionately called "long". I believe it was designed to cope with horses.
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You can shoot a guy 15 times with a 45 acp and he can stillshoot back at you and live.
Bb
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There was a test similar to this done here at the 'Campfire back in 2008. Ten Thousand Cows Can't Be Wrong
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You can shoot a guy 15 times with a 45 acp and he can stillshoot back at you and live.
Bb Saw that.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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The .45ACP kind of belongs with original 1911 pistols (actually 1910), but that is where the charm ends. Good choice if one lives where mag limit is 10.
The .45 Colt out of revolver is far better if one can afford the ammo. It is considerably more expensive with Winchester Defender being top notch. When it comes to defensive loads or hunting loads Winchester folk do not skimp on powder.
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