Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only If one was planning to shoot a large ungulate??

I have the opportunity to take a large ungulate. Say 1,500 lbs or more.

I am thinking of three different cartridges of which I have S X S double rifles

Range should be 50 yds or under.

A CSMC RBl Professional, 20 ga. Sabots.

A German guild S X S in 405 Winchester, 300 Gr. Hornady Interlock

A Sabatti 92 in 45-70, 400 Gr. Speers or 415 Gr. cast lead.

What would be your choice?

Quien Sabe,

GWB

I vote for door 3

But I'm curious as to just what type of ungulate you're after...

The .405W is awesome, but we need pics of the platform

45-70 with FN cast lead of 400 grains or larger. Bhn of 12-18.
F01

I made a 0ne shot kill on a Cape Buff in Africa with my .405 WCF from a Winchester 1895 .405.


A friend "annoyed" another with his 30-06 and finished it off with my .405.

None of these could stop a 45-70 405 grain cast bullet…

GW, not sure I'd trust the penetration of a 20ga slug, at least without testing. The 45-70 or 405 would do the trick. A Texas ungulate, I assume?

Ditto Biebs.
It would be interesting to know what 20-gauge sabot load you might
consider using in your .615 Express double rifle, for game that large.

Actually South African if I'm correct.




As near as I can tell this is a Zebu Bull, not a Brahma. He showed up with a couple cows. He does not belong to the ranch or the fellow that has the grazing rights. He must have escaped from a game ranch. He has no brand and as such would be considered an exotic.




Should I choose to employ the RBL Pro Sabot rifle it would be loaded with Factory Winchester 3/4 oz Sabots (+/- 328 Gr.) @ 1,600 FPS muzzle velocity.





ya!

GWB

I vote .405 ...

Hope you have a big freezer!

That was my original plan.....


So which 405???




the Burgsmuller Double, the Dakota 10, The Ruger#1

or just ask "What would Teddy Do?




I'm thinking the double or the 1895.

I don't think I have the stones to stalk up within 30 to 50 paces and try my luck with a single shot.

ya!


GWB

Why not?

45-70

No need to be 30-40 paces. 100 paces will work just fine with FN cast. Plenty of time for a reload with the singles imho.
F01

Me too.

Actually the 40-72 is a bit more cool…

In this case:

"Should I choose to employ the RBL Pro Sabot rifle it would be loaded with Factory Winchester 3/4 oz Sabots (+/- 328 Gr.) @ 1,600 FPS muzzle velocity."







I bought Tony Galazan's personal RBL 20-Bore Double Rifle off of him at his 2013 DSC booth.
He had his regulated with a Winchester 260-gr sabot slug at 1800 fps, for those pesky Connecticut deer.
Your load is more powerful and you shoot it well.
That should be zebu-capable.
Much more interesting than the more commonly used .45-70 or .405 WCF.
Do it for Tony !

Long before I met Tony, I met this advertising:





Maybe Tony took his personal RBL Professional to many conventions, and unloaded one on the spot each time ?







"Hey Tony, will you knock off 2K and sell it without the scope thingy ?"



He did.
Hello, my name is Ron ...

I am a sucker for 20 gauge anything, my first one was a Western Field single-shot from Sears & Roebuck.
So I am rooting for the 20-Bore double rifle on the big bovine.
1600 fps with a 330-gr monometal copper sabot slug ought to gitterdun.
I think I am going to need about that velocity with my 330-grain roundball:

Too cool.

Appreciate the time and effort you took to post that.

I bought mine used and think I got a good deal. $4K IIRC.

I am taking it with me tomorrow, when I go.

Spring turkey season opened last Saturday, but with grandkids, being away on Easter was a non starter.

The strut is late this year and I'm hoping to take one or two toms between now and Thursday if they co-operate.

I'll also set snares and traps for hogs/coyotes, and hunt with thermal at night.

Never can tell what may appear in the Texas Hill Country.































Just gotta be in the right place at the right time.

Seems the more time I am afield, the luckier I get.

ya!

GWB

Cool !
Take that turkey's head off with the RBL.
I used a .300 Weatherby on one at a Tennessee game farm. Zero meat wasted.
Speaking of game farms, you seem to have one going on at your place,
or some more escapees ?
Is there a season on mountain lion there ?

Turkeys need to be killed with vintage guns too…

Great post!

Many of us are enjoying the fruits of the labor posted above!

Keep up the fine work here Gents!

HS 58

I was on the way out the door and had to stop.

Good stuff Kirk.

Not quite vintage but I luv sniping Turkey.



Sako Riihimaki, 222 Rem.




Cooper 21, 6 x 47 (6 X 222Rem Mag)




Winchester m70, 6.5 Leopard (6.5-300 WSM)



Steyr Mannlicher Classic, 270 Win.




Dakota 76, 280 Rem



Steyr Pro, 7mag.




Rem. 700 Custom KS, 300 H&H





Blaser R93, Grand Luxe Stutzen, 9.3 x 62

and yeah, I'll slum a shotgun from time to time



Greener Trap, 12 ga.




How sweet it is!

I've more, but I got to get on the road. Need to be though San Antonio before 3PM


ya!

BTW,
Almost forgot,
The rifle propped by the 100th anniversary Harley is. Sako L61R, Varmint in 7mag.

Ya,

GWB

Some nice looking rifles up there and pretty extensive game list.
No rifles for turkeys here. I did shoot my first gobbler with a Super America 22 Hornet the year before they outlawed rifles for turkeys

Wow for sure !
I am still rooting for the RBL.
Anyone who can kill turkeys with rifles like that
ought to be able to kill a big bovine with a 20-gauge shotgun.
No guff !
I couldn't say no bull, or no steer, or no cow because I didn't look for dangly stuff and I know nothing about zebus.

Last paper catalog I had shows this:



Funny how in the last 10 years or so the price has only gone up $4.
And they started misspelling "SABOT."
Let's go Brandon !

405 Winchester SXS double with brand new load workup with the 300gr Barnes TSX, in stock and ready to ship from MidwayUSA, have fun.

Geedubya, I hope you get to kill that big basterd if ya do post a bunch of pics.

OK, I looked back at your images and description, even googled zebu.
Yep, it's a bull.
No BS, you'll be sorry if you pass up the chance to shoot it with the RBL.

OK, ,

Spring Turkey season in Texas opened on Saturday, March 31. Easter was the next day, and Easter is a significant occasion with the Brown clan that has a history of at least 40 years. Consequently I did not make opening day. Monday it rained all day, which makes it difficult to pack accordingly for heading to the lease. It finally ceased Tuesday morning so I got out of town about 10:30 AM

I had planned on leaving earlier so I could make an afternoon hunt. Turns out it was 7 PM before I was set up and in place. On the way to the cistern where I had planned to set up for turkey and a possible encounter with the Zebu bull should he come to water, I saw the two Zebu cows that make up the Zebu bulls consort. The bull was not with them.

I set up a ground blind about 100 yds from a water trough where turkey and hogs are known to frequent. I had a CZ in 6.5 Grendel and my Sig Cross w/ thermal. I set out till 1 AM and perforated two hoglets.

I have a cellular game cam set up at this water trough and have numerous pix of tom turkeys coming to water in the AM and PM. In the recent past the earliest I had observed toms at the cistern was aound 8:30 AM.



I got there Wednesday morning at 7:30. The hens were still perched on the water trough drinking. The tom must have heard me come to my ground blind as he was nowhere in evidence. I saw a bunch more hens during the next two days, but toms were not in evidence.

Wednesday morning I stayed in the blind until a skosh after 10 AM. I decided would go back to camp, do some chores, and come back around 1 pm and set the rest of the afternoon.

Anywho, I got within 1/2 mile of camp when the Zebu bull crossed the road about 20 yds. in front of my vehicle.

I immediately stopped, got out and grabbed the 405 Winchester double. Turns out the bull was following a trail that ran about 30 degrees adjacent the road. When he came into view he was partially obscured from the shoulder down by brush and brambles. He stopped, was broadside and looked in my direction. Later I stepped it off and called it +/- 30 paces. I have a 30” inseam so I figure =/- 25 yds between him and me.

I took the shot and he dropped. I immediately shot him again. As I was reloading, he got up and started heading back into the scrum. I shot him twice more and he went down again. I reloaded and he was trying to get up again so I shot him two more times. He was done for and I could hear a moan and death rattle. Six rounds with 300 gr. Hornady Interbonds. Maybe it would not have taken all six to do him in but I was taking no chances and he was getting farther into the scrum.

In retrospect, I probably should have waited for a more opportune location at which to take the beast, but hindsight is 20-20.

So there he was, a massive critter, +/- 90 ft off the road, with no avenue of ingress for my Ford Explorer, no shade, 88 degrees and counting.

I keep all my tools for skinning and breaking down a critter in my vehicle, so I went to work.

Having never taken a critter that large, I’ll admit to doing it all wrong, and ended up getting heat prostration once more in the process as I worked from 11 AM to 8:30 PM dealing with his carcass.

First thing I did was to rip out the backstraps. They are about 4’ long, 8 -10” wide and weigh about 20 lbs. I was laughing at myself carrying them over my shoulder to the trailer where my coolers were. Considerably more sizable than the backstraps and loins of the deer and hogs I shoot.

Next I took the head, which in hindsight was a mistake as I could have used the leverage on the horns and skull to try to turn the beast over.

Finally, I began to take the left shoulder. That was an exercise. At one point I reflected on cleaning horses’s hooves in my youth as I had his foreleg behind my left knee to apply pressure to where I could get my knife under the shoulder blade. I did not skin the quarter, as once I got it separated from the carcass, I could not lift it. I tried wrestling with it to no avail. Ended up fetching a tarp with which to wrap it, secured it with staps and drug it the half mile back to camp.
In consideration of the weight of the front shoulder, and the position of the carcass, there was no way I was going to try to take a hind quarter as the beast fell into a large clump cat-claw scrum. If you have experienced cat-claw, you don’t mess with that unless you want to be bleeding from a hundred places.

I had heat stroke in 2007, and since have had heat prostration at least a dozen times. By 5pm I was half mad. I went back to camp, turned the AC on in my camper and crashed till 7pm, at which time I was able to think a bit more clearly.

I keep heavy duty straps for towing. I had two 25’ straps. I found a third and managed to find two 10’ lengths of chain which I connected with padlocks. So in all I had about 95’ of tow straps connected and wrapped the end of one around the beasts hind leg.

Pulling him out around trees and bushes, then back to camp took till dark, but I prevailed.

Of all things, I did not have the presence of mind to take any hero shots. So here are some pix I did take……….

















As an aside, I mentioned that I had considered using my RBL Professional Sabot double to take him, but my plan/dream was to use the 405 Win. double on this feral African critter. Chances are this is as close as I’ll ever come to Africa.

I did have a chance the next day to employ the RBL double.



Decent boar by my reckoning.

All told it was a killer trip.



Six hogs, two coons and a Zebu, and a few beverages.



Ya!

GWB

Good job on the bull, but a log chain and a 4 wheel drive would have been enough to take care of it. Dragged into the brush for other critters to enjoy would have been all I worry about.

By the way, I followed your advice on posting about the Montana big game we talked about and of course it turned into the campfire/dumpster fire…

Ordered a box earlier today. Will give them a try!

Thanx,

GWB

Good work.



Nice photo except the Talley levers should be pointing below the bore line when they are on the left side,
so recoil works to keep them tight instead of loosening them.
What ? You say there is no recoil from a 20-Bore ?

Awesome photo's guys!

That's a lot of meat. Hope it's good eating!

Outstanding,

Outstanding GW. Well done my friend.

You are living the high life. Congratulations.

Thanks for sharing the adventure with us!

What are you plans for the cows? Ballistic research with the other rifles?

Would you have been scrambling to feed one of the single shot rifles while he was in sight?

Thanks!

I used a 300 Wby on my large ungulate and it didn't work out so well for me. We're it not for a week placed shot to the earhole by a 30-06, i would have been stomped

This, to me, is the logical choice. Particulars would be LBT-style bullet, BHN at least 18, and running about 1650 to 1700 fps, wherever accuracy is.

The 405 just oozes *cool*.

The Dakota, the double 20 ga, and that double 405 are stunning. Nice predicament to be in to choose one of those.

Judging from your other post I see you went Double 405 Winchester. Nice!