I very much like the several cops I've known over my time on earth as people/friends but when it comes to operating in a professional capacity - I have zero trust that they wouldn't look the other way if a bad cop tied me up. Zero trust that they'd not follow orders, even if it was anti-constitution. They will back the blue 100% always.
Everybody makes decisions and 99% of those decisions come down to "it's you or me" - and there's nothing that leads me to believe any LEO is ever going to decide, when it comes time to either stand on my side/Constitution or on the side of paycheck/power/pension - they're going to chose me and my family over themselves and theirs. I get it. I understand that but that does NOT make me trust them at all. Ever.
Start paying lawsuits out of pensions instead of taxpayer funds, and the cops would start policing their own. The crap of investigating themselves and claiming they did nothing wrong is a joke.
Outlawing civil asset forfeiture too. Seizing cash without charges and convictions is a police shakedown and theft.
Getting rid of Qualified Immunity would be a great place to start.
Do you really believe that? There's no way in hell that you'd get anyone to do police work if they were subject to lawsuit every time they hurt someone's feelings. As it stands now, there is a mechanism for holding them legally accountable for their wrongs.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by Dess
Start paying lawsuits out of pensions instead of taxpayer funds, and the cops would start policing their own. The crap of investigating themselves and claiming they did nothing wrong is a joke.
Outlawing civil asset forfeiture too. Seizing cash without charges and convictions is a police shakedown and theft.
Getting rid of Qualified Immunity would be a great place to start.
Do you really believe that? There's no way in hell that you'd get anyone to do police work if they were subject to lawsuit every time they hurt someone's feelings. As it stands now, there is a mechanism for holding them legally accountable for their wrongs.
"The panel held that at the time of the incident, there was no clearly established law holding that officers violate the Fourth or Fourteenth Amendment when they steal property seized pursuant to a warrant. For that reason, the City Officers were entitled to qualified immunity."
"The panel held that at the time of the incident, there was no clearly established law holding that officers violate the Fourth or Fourteenth Amendment when they steal property seized pursuant to a warrant. For that reason, the City Officers were entitled to qualified immunity."
without the police, Stalin would have been just a fellow with some bad ideas.
It doesn’t take any more time to find records of good cops doing their job every day and all you cop hating people want to do is beat up law enforcement and hope you will never need their services.
The best thing that could happen is to have your safety threatened and then call the plumber or garbage man for assistance. There are 10’s of thousands of cops on the streets every day, dealing with scum and criminals so you won’t be bothered by them. You don’t see that, just look for the bad apple and then continue with you cop hating mantra.
You are not only ignorant, you are pathetic…
You shill for:
- donations for NRA flunkies to use for their own personal gain - corrupt cops
It's a tough job for sure and the bad cops make it much harder for the good ones. Like everything it's easy to just be lazy and throw them all in together and either love them all or hate them all.
The truth is much more difficult like everything in life. Some are good and some are bad and some good ones make bad calls and some bad ones do some tremendous good sometimes. I try to give them each respect until they prove unworthy of it. I want to see them all go home safe each night but don't believe they can do no wrong.
Every position of power requires tremendous oversight to minimize abuse. It's just too easy for a job like that to get someone headed in the wrong direction. I think the good cops know better than anyone the damage the bad ones do. One run in with a bad cop can really change a person's perception and make people lose a lot of faith really quick.
I don't know what kind of power good ones have to fix the issues but I for one really appreciate every kind and professional cop I meet. Its amazing how some can deal with what they do each day and still be kind and professional. I could probably do a better job of letting the good ones know I appreciate them but like anything, you get 10 things right you hear nothing yet if you do one thing wrong...
Honest question, has anyone posted an example of the egregious behavior you all swear is endemic to all law enforcement from their own specific area? As in your zipcode, your neighborhood. Not a story from across the state, or from 20 years ago, or from great uncle Festus’s drinking buddies. You all claim this is the mindset of all cops, and given the numbers out there everyday there should be plenty of grist for your paranoia mill.
If you want to be legit paranoid, worry about the military and all the returned vets. After how many years in the GWOT how many thousands are there out there?
Honest question, has anyone posted an example of the egregious behavior you all swear is endemic to all law enforcement from their own specific area? As in your zipcode, your neighborhood. Not a story from across the state, or from 20 years ago, or from great uncle Festus’s drinking buddies. You all claim this is the mindset of all cops, and given the numbers out there everyday there should be plenty of grist for your paranoia mill.
If you want to be legit paranoid, worry about the military and all the returned vets. After how many years in the GWOT how many thousands are there out there?
Local law enforcement was citing people fishing on a bridge (outdoors) and who were within 6 feet of one another during Covid. We get a strong salmon run here. They spent time patrolling known fishing spots to cite people for lack of social distancing.
When Green Bay outlawed smoking in bars - I was in SEVERAL who had surprise inspections where they made everyone stand up so they could look, including back bar/coolers etc for people smoking. Revenue generation, not exactly keeping the peace.
I worry less about veterans - IME, most GWOT guys, especially early 2002-2006 GWOT guys have little to no love for the authoritarian state. They are the one group MOST disillusioned with .fed/.gov power at this time.
For all his faults - GWB accidentally created millions of veterans who no longer trust the government (WMD in Iraq) and yet are experts at conducting low/medium intensity insurgency and wrote the counter-measures book. Should things degenerate to that level where that's what we have here.
There's a reason why vets like Garand Thumb are putting out videos on how to break down/operate and keep a 240B running. SERE tactics in urban and rural environments etc. Why other vets have gotten so involved in minuteman type communities. Teaching others patrol tactics, comsec, building coms networks etc. I've noticed that it's often vets leading this transfer of knowledge to civs more than any other group.
Honest question, has anyone posted an example of the egregious behavior you all swear is endemic to all law enforcement from their own specific area? As in your zipcode, your neighborhood. Not a story from across the state, or from 20 years ago, or from great uncle Festus’s drinking buddies. You all claim this is the mindset of all cops, and given the numbers out there everyday there should be plenty of grist for your paranoia mill.
If you want to be legit paranoid, worry about the military and all the returned vets. After how many years in the GWOT how many thousands are there out there?
Less than 20 years ago ..and only on a thursday....and only between 1:15 pm and 1:45pm...and ....
Honest question, can you point us to a city, county, or state with no egregious abuses of le power?
Honest question, has anyone posted an example of the egregious behavior you all swear is endemic to all law enforcement from their own specific area? As in your zipcode, your neighborhood. Not a story from across the state, or from 20 years ago, or from great uncle Festus’s drinking buddies. You all claim this is the mindset of all cops, and given the numbers out there everyday there should be plenty of grist for your paranoia mill.
If you want to be legit paranoid, worry about the military and all the returned vets. After how many years in the GWOT how many thousands are there out there?
Local law enforcement was citing people fishing on a bridge (outdoors) and who were within 6 feet of one another during Covid. We get a strong salmon run here. They spent time patrolling known fishing spots to cite people for lack of social distancing.
When Green Bay outlawed smoking in bars - I was in SEVERAL who had surprise inspections where they made everyone stand up so they could look, including back bar/coolers etc for people smoking. Revenue generation, not exactly keeping the peace.
I worry less about veterans - IME, most GWOT guys, especially early 2002-2006 GWOT guys have little to no love for the authoritarian state. They are the one group MOST disillusioned with .fed/.gov power at this time.
For all his faults - GWB accidentally created millions of veterans who no longer trust the government (WMD in Iraq) and yet are experts at conducting low/medium intensity insurgency and wrote the counter-measures book. Should things degenerate to that level where that's what we have here.
Predictable response. Why I posted it honestly. .mil=good, LE=bad. Retired LE has no reason to distrust .gov because, well, pensions. Not because they see overreach and abuse of power and it worries them, they have a blind spot. Veterans though, they get a pension and medical care, but they have no blind spot and are virtuous.
As to the covidiocy? You get what you vote for.
Not that I’m giving a pass, the shît you cited should never have happened.
But the smoking in bars? Hell I read on this very site how great it was that it was illegal.
Edited to address your edit:
There are no former LE running similar courses or training?
And no I’m not [bleep]ûcking vets, I was making a point. I believe I have made it.
Predictable response. Why I posted it honestly. .mil=good, LE=bad. Retired LE has no reason to distrust .gov because, well, pensions. Not because they see overreach and abuse of power and it worries them, they have a blind spot. Veterans though, they get a pension and medical care, but they have no blind spot and are virtuous.
Weird - I'm a veteran, I receive zero pension and zero .gov medical care.
And my point is exactly that - retired MIL ARE calling out the .gov and TEACHING others how to defend against an obtrusive government. .leo - not so much. (Administrative Results not withstanding - if there are other accounts, I'd love to know about them to learn more)
I've also consistently said that current .mil absolutely will open fire and operate against civilians if give the chance. Nothing virtuous there.
I said so as recently as today in another thread where .mil abused the hell out of another .mil for refusing the vax. That Airman went up on charges and was found not guilty on all 5. Yet his brother airmen went fast and heavy on him in his cell.
without the police, Stalin would have been just a fellow with some bad ideas.
It doesn’t take any more time to find records of good cops doing their job every day and all you cop hating people want to do is beat up law enforcement and hope you will never need their services.
The best thing that could happen is to have your safety threatened and then call the plumber or garbage man for assistance. There are 10’s of thousands of cops on the streets every day, dealing with scum and criminals so you won’t be bothered by them. You don’t see that, just look for the bad apple and then continue with you cop hating mantra.
You are not only ignorant, you are pathetic…
You shill for:
- donations for NRA flunkies to use for their own personal gain - corrupt cops
Can't wait to see what else.
Criticism from you is a good endorsement. Having you as a friend would be like having pancreatic cancer…
Predictable response. Why I posted it honestly. .mil=good, LE=bad. Retired LE has no reason to distrust .gov because, well, pensions. Not because they see overreach and abuse of power and it worries them, they have a blind spot. Veterans though, they get a pension and medical care, but they have no blind spot and are virtuous.
Weird - I'm a veteran, I receive zero pension and zero .gov medical care.
And my point is exactly that - retired MIL ARE calling out the .gov and TEACHING others how to defend against an obtrusive government. .leo - not so much. (Administrative Results not withstanding)
I've also consistently said that current .mil absolutely will open fire and operate against civilians if give the chance. Nothing virtuous there.
I said so as recently as today in another thread where .mil abused the hell out of another .mil for refusing the vax. That Airman went up on charges and was found not guilty on all 5. Yet his brother airmen went fast and heavy on him in his cell.
Weird, kinda like a LEO that didn’t do a full 20-25.
I am not defending LE, just pointing out the hypocrisy
I didn’t intend to lock horns this hard, but demonizing LE and canonizing vets requires a set of blinders.
Predictable response. Why I posted it honestly. .mil=good, LE=bad. Retired LE has no reason to distrust .gov because, well, pensions. Not because they see overreach and abuse of power and it worries them, they have a blind spot. Veterans though, they get a pension and medical care, but they have no blind spot and are virtuous.
Weird - I'm a veteran, I receive zero pension and zero .gov medical care.
And my point is exactly that - retired MIL ARE calling out the .gov and TEACHING others how to defend against an obtrusive government. .leo - not so much. (Administrative Results not withstanding)
I've also consistently said that current .mil absolutely will open fire and operate against civilians if give the chance. Nothing virtuous there.
I said so as recently as today in another thread where .mil abused the hell out of another .mil for refusing the vax. That Airman went up on charges and was found not guilty on all 5. Yet his brother airmen went fast and heavy on him in his cell.
Weird, kinda like a LEO that didn’t do a full 20-25.
I am not defending LE, just pointing out the hypocrisy
I didn’t intend to lock horns this hard, but demonizing LE and canonizing vets requires a set of blinders.
Curious and not a slight - wondering what % of all entrants go to retirement vice not in either community? I'd bet a lot more ride out a LEO career than .mil - which doesn't mean anything about our conversation. ETA - found this - Only 30% of officers and 10% of enlisted Soldiers retire.
I'm not worried about former LEO or retired LEO same as former or retired vets - it's the current ones/current system that has my distrust. DISTRUST not hatred.
I do notice though - former vets seem much more involved in knowledge transfer of skills and tips to mitigate a .gov led pogrom than former LEO.
You believe that police/leo do not shoot dogs and people in error? More or less often than a fireman? Statistically speaking.
Hell they get the entire HOUSE wrong, much less the person.
There is a reason why, basically, every person gets nervous when LEO pulls out behind them - even if they're doing no wrong. There is a reason why the BEST advice, legally, even if you've done nothing wrong, is to NEVER EVER talk to the police.
There is a reason why I, don't ever, want to interact with and also never EVER trust a police officer. And that includes the ones I've known since 8th grade (now retired).
The heavy boot of the state is never connected to a politician but always a LEO first. As someone who values freedom - supporting LEO today in this country is 100% opposite of that.
I get it - we live in dangerous times. The fact that "I was scared" is a good enough excuse for LEO to shoot someone/something that also doesn't apply to Joe down the block is 10000% bullchit. Hell, it's not even that anymore as we saw with the kidnap girl being shot for following instructions. No weapon - shot because she moved.
LE SHOULD BE selected to be scared and maintain a level head.
This country is on a collision course with wide open civil disruption and chaos. In the PAST when that's happened. LEO has turned their back on the perpetrators and essentially allowed the victims to be made. It's evident, after the summer of 2020 - that LEO will not and does not look out for the average citizen and given the order - will squash the constitution of citizens to "feel safe". I'm reminded of people pulled out of public meetings for lack of a mask while BLM burned the city down.
Naw - I saw and studied up close the fall of other countries with heavy LEO/Police presence like Yugoslavia and saw the work those LEO did in their country when the crap hit the fan - we're doing the same here and on the same path. There is no vend diagram, it's a single circle.
Sorry - I don't ignore the combination of the Gadsden Flag sticker next to a "Thin blue line" sticker on the truck.
And lest anyone get me wrong - I've never been arrested. This isn't about what was done to me but what I see happening in our society. Color me "unimpressed" by LEO and their concerns about hurt feelings. Much like you'd never trust someone who wants to be a politician because it's a power grab, it's more and more evident the same applies to law enforcement. Wasn't always that way.
Like all things - point of view, stereotypes or slurs are often earned.
Well of course those errors happen with cops. They are law enforcement officers. That part wasn't wacko. Why in the hell would a fireman shoot a dog during a fire response? They aren't armed and they don't respond in a law enforcement capacity. You just as well have noted that it'snot fire engine drivers screwing up pit maneuvers.
Predictable response. Why I posted it honestly. .mil=good, LE=bad. Retired LE has no reason to distrust .gov because, well, pensions. Not because they see overreach and abuse of power and it worries them, they have a blind spot. Veterans though, they get a pension and medical care, but they have no blind spot and are virtuous.
Weird - I'm a veteran, I receive zero pension and zero .gov medical care.
And my point is exactly that - retired MIL ARE calling out the .gov and TEACHING others how to defend against an obtrusive government. .leo - not so much. (Administrative Results not withstanding)
I've also consistently said that current .mil absolutely will open fire and operate against civilians if give the chance. Nothing virtuous there.
I said so as recently as today in another thread where .mil abused the hell out of another .mil for refusing the vax. That Airman went up on charges and was found not guilty on all 5. Yet his brother airmen went fast and heavy on him in his cell.
Weird, kinda like a LEO that didn’t do a full 20-25.
I am not defending LE, just pointing out the hypocrisy
I didn’t intend to lock horns this hard, but demonizing LE and canonizing vets requires a set of blinders.
Curious and not a slight - wondering what % of all entrants go to retirement vice not in either community? I'd bet a lot more ride out a LEO career than .mil - which doesn't mean anything about our conversation. ETA - found this - Only 30% of officers and 10% of enlisted Soldiers retire.
I'm not worried about former LEO or retired LEO same as former or retired vets - it's the current ones/current system that has my distrust. DISTRUST not hatred.
I do notice though - former vets seem much more involved in knowledge transfer of skills and tips to mitigate a .gov led pogrom than former LEO.
Without a doubt that number in re retirement is skewed hard to LE. But it’s not really an apples to apples, as I’ve known people that went in the military for the GI bill and trainings that would translate to a good job private sector after doing well short of a retirement timeline. To be fair though there are guys that go LE then use those credentials to get private security jobs.
I distrust everyone lol. Especially if they have the authority to deprive me of my freedom.
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