Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Bullseye shooters, I need 1911 advice!

Gentlemen,

I'd be grateful if those with bullseye knowledge and experience, would be willing to provide general pointers and suggestions for someone interested in a true "bullseye capable" pistol. Not just a good shooting iron, but the real deal for 50 yard competition.

I was originally looking for a 38 Master, and may still buy one, but the focus now is a 1911.

• I have a .22LR, that I will upgrade first
• I don't own a single 1911 now, and only had an old Colt rattletrap for a very brief time
• Will probably use a red dot, unless there is a compelling reason not to
• Not sure that I would actually compete, but I do enjoy informal "precision" rifle shooting, and do intend to shoot 50y
• I also like to tinker, and might be capable of fitting parts and am not opposed to buying some tools
• I'd like to do the upgrades with my kids, and have them see what if any improvements are made
• I'm also not opposed to learning with a decent base 1911, and sending it to a top BE gunsmith either
• I am a handloader, and have made some very good 45 ACP loads for revolvers
• Budget - open, but might end up with several pistols depending on kids' interests!

Any recommendations for books?

Websites? I've been reading at Bullseye-L Forum.

Organizations or clubs?

I have come to realize that there are many very fine 1911 makes/models out there, but they are not necessarily suitable for BE no matter the cost. I've also been intrigued by the mechanical design of the 1911, that suits it to BE shooting. Very cool stuff, and I am excited for this "journey".

Thanks,

Jason

Bullseye 1911 are a thing to themselves. Do you plan on shooting with Bullseye technique or Isocelecs two handed or something else?

I expect that my kids and I will shoot two handed to begin with. And perhaps formal Bullseye technique later. It's more about shooting small at 50y, with a pistol, than anything.

[align:right][/align]Bullseye was my sport for thirty-eight years. If you want to compete in the 900 and 2700 big boy matches you’ll need to pony up some serious cash to be serious. But you’re miles and years from that level I suspect. The National matches have three course or legs of fire: rimfire, centerfire and 45 all at 50 yds outdoors. Most competitors shoot a rimfire and one centerfire a1911 platform. Centerfire used to see mostly 32 cal but they are not as popular in the states anymore since the 45 qualifies for both courses and makes a bigger hole

So you’ve got a good rimfire and you’re looking for a 45 softball or midrange target pistol. Good move but building a truly reliable and accurate gun will cost you. I personally would suggest searching for a used gun set up at half price. They are out there if you look around especially at matches especially Camp Perry. Otherwise a decent Colt or other reputable manufacturer with a comp barrel bushing, trigger job, springs, ramp contour, some grips depending, and a red dot will get you on the target. Of course for target 45 acp ammo you’ll need to reload to dial in the ammo and gun correctly. That I’m thinking is the best affordable entry package for the CF legs.

To start out in this sport find a mentor one who you know is qualified. This maybe as easy as attending some matches but maybe much more involved if you are unlucky enough to have no or few leagues. You’ll want to start with your 22 rimfire at club indoor ranges shooting the Gallery course. This is the place to build your fundamentals, technique and accuracy. Note most clubs that offer these matches do so from Fall to Early Spring and almost always need fresh blood as the sport of Bullseye is hurting for membership. Younger shooters usually do not want to spend years learning to shoot offhand for X’s . I know New England has always been a fertile area and I understand Seattle and thereabouts is hot too. I shot in NH, MA and ME in three leagues plus state Nationals. Believe it or not MIT was nearly always tops. Not sure about the rest of the country. I’m in MI and it’s beyond dead here. those matches I’ve attended here are often a line full of two handed shooters — sorry not Bullseye !

I wish you good luck hang in there it’s worth it. Once you get to the point where it clicks, if you’re like me if I shoot rabitts, chippy’s anything within 40-50 yards and I’m using a revolver or pistol it’s one handed— it’s just natural

One of the best sites is : TargetTalk.org

Rick

If you want to shoot two handed action pistol events then practice it, but the techniques, stances and equipment are are so incompatible that all you will do is pick up habits that won’t help in Bullseye at all. You’d be better off in archery.

[*]Budget - open, but might end up with several pistols depending on kids' interests!
[/list]

Any recommendations for books?

Websites? I've been reading at Bullseye-L Forum.

Organizations or clubs?

I have come to realize that there are many very fine 1911 makes/models out ethere, but they are not necessarily suitable for BE no matter the cost. I've also been intrigued by the mechanical design of the 1911, that suits it to BE shooting. Very cool stuff, and I am excited for this "journey".

Thanks,

Jason[/quote]

TargetTalk.org. Very good source

"Will probably use a red dot, unless there is a compelling reason not to"

I don't think optics or compensators are allowed. They are not allowed in my gun club's Bullseye sanctioned matches.

The biggest difference in the shooting, which reflects the types of guns used, are shooting against the clock with power factor for the loads vs. no time limits and "softball".

Both types have developed their own after market parts, which make the guns different.

Bullseye---"my grandmother can shoot that good, it just takes her longer"

action shooting--- " Geez can't that guy stand still long enough to reload?"

Some bad info in this post. the centerfire pistol match course is Slow fire all shot at 50 yds 3 strings of 10 shots, then timed fire and rapid fire all shot at 25yds for a grand total of 90 shots. You make it sound like it’s all shot at 50yds. I want to clarify it is not. Your type of advice is what drives people away from this sport, you make it sound difficult. As our match director says bring it and shoot it, if you feel like this is something they want to do then we offer suggestions. We had a young man show up to one of our matches and right out the gate he was shooting 780's with his 22 L.R. He never shot bullseye before in his life.

You guys aren't shooting bullseye matches you are shooting a EIC matches. Go read rule 4.2 of the CMP pistol rule book. Optics are allowed compensator aren't allowed.

https://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/2023PistolRules.pdf?vers=030923

We shoot bullseye matches every month up here. With couple of EIC matches thrown in when the weather gets nice to shoot outdoors.

I had my wad gun built by Dave Salyers, he builds a fine wad gun for a fair price. Go buy a TISA 1911 the ones they sell for $329 bucks. Send it to Dave Salyer, he puts Kart NM barrel, Kart NM bushing, does a trigger job, tightens slide to frame, puts rail and optic on it. Mine cost around $1200 to have done and this thing will shoot tiny groups like you want at 50yds. You will have it back in less than 2 weeks. Far as ammo go buy Zero 185gr SWCHP or Zero 185gr HP use either bullseye or wst for powder and use whatever large pistol primer you have. Preferably if you can find them or have them use federal. Every bullseye shooter will tell you the key is to dry fire, dry fire and dry fire. Also to shoot two handed they have to be NRA sanctioned bullseye matches. If you need Dave Salyer's info shoot me a pm I will give it to you.

Forgot he test fires them using a ransom rest and will tell you what he shot in them far as loads. I think mine was shooting 1.2 inch groups at 25 yrds.

If you want an EIC pistol find a Springfield XD-Match in a 45 ACP. These things are as close as you will get to having a match ready EIC pistol. There is a outfit making drop in triggers for them. Or buy a Beretta 92 send it Dave Salyers and he will make a Hard Ball pistol for you in a 9mm. Dave Sams 9mm load is well known in the hardball world. 6.2 grains of power pistol with a 115gr Hornady fmj.

Mine is a Kart from Riverhead, NY. (that's how long ago) He used the colt barrel and recut the lugs. Had a barsto rib, then a weaver with aimpoint, then a tumbstone style dot. I was never in the 260's but had a lot of fun (this was 50ft bullseye one hand 30rnds) . we had guys shooting 300's .

Kart, Maples, Clark - this is a long time ago.

no ambi anything
no beaver
no funnel

Wanna find out if you got rhythm? Try shooting the 22 and CF portions of a 2700 match using a K-22 and a K-38. Firing cadence during timed and rapid fire becomes extremely important. Ready or not, each shot’s gotta go off at its proper interval, exactly on time, with thumb-cocking between each, and the last shot breaking just before the target turns away. All one-handed, too. It’s a humbling experience.

Nice thing about the K-Frame Target Masterpieces, though, if you shoot them right, they’ll score well. There’s no need to dump a bunch of accurizing money into them first.

But, properly accurized (expensive) autos sure do make it a lot easier to shoot a decent score, and without all the work.

The famous question are you thumb cocker or shoot double action. Me I’m a thumb cocker, I’m horrible at double action.

I did make a disastrous attempt at double action point shooting International Rapid Fire, once, ‘cause 5 shots in 4 seconds didn’t allow for thumb cocking, the targets seemed so close, and the scoring rings seemed so generously large - oops, turned out they weren’t. But, for Bullseye, it was always thumb cocking single action, due to the one hand requirement.

However, two-handed double action shooting is another matter:



Once I was classified PPC Grand Master, I thereafter shot every match double action only, as it was simply less work to be staging the trigger and maintaining consistent grip, allowing more time for sighting and let off. Just before the end of my time with the CHP Pistol Team, I shot a 598 in a match that way. But, the match winner out Xed me. Close, but no cigar.

I didn’t think the OP was deep enough into National Match distances and targets to really care. Obviously you do so I guess you need to dicker on B-16 targets slow and timed/rapid targets and distance. Huh? Cause that’s what drives new shooters away right ? I told you how long I competed and retired as a Master Class but shooting once a month up where you’re at well it’s hard to compete with such a rigorous schedule. Listen my friend I’ve competed in this discipline enough years including Perry five times and help run some serious matches in NE. Member of four clubs in New England all of which had first class indoor Gallery setups and active leagues indoor 300 and outdoor 900. What caused new shooters to leave was plain and simple patience and practice. There’d sign up with their new Rugers and shoot five weeks or so and get bummed out not scoring. I mentioned in my post the Gallery course at 50’ is the incubator to good Bullseye. So I’m sorry you’re having such a tough time cause Bullseye is really a pickup discipline that anybody can do once a month..

Rick

I will say it again when people read what you write that will dissuade them all day long from trying out bullseye. You make it sound like it's a daunting task and take years to get any good and go to Camp Perry, Cardinal, Canton. I was just telling a guy at a bullseye match today, about going to camp perry, I said go just because you aren't shooting 800's don't let that stop you. I said you will get more advice from some of the best pistol shooters in world. On the last part I'm not having a tough time, Im not high master or master but I enjoy shooting and do it because I still can. Truth be told I'm a service rifle shooter.

Gentlemen, thank you for the info. Lot to digest! I need to re-read it again.

I've been really interested in the Tisas, but wasn't sure if any gunsmiths would work on them. Good to hear that Dave Salyers will.

I didn't mention it, but I squirrelled away a S&W 67 for each child, and have been looking for a good gunsmith. I heard that there is a good one in AZ, and I need to do some work down there soon, so maybe I'll drop the revolvers off in person.