Home Forums Reloading Shotshells Winchester 209 primers

Hopefully, some good news for those looking for them. Win 209s seem to be making their way to store shelves. I picked up a couple bricks a few weeks ago at a store for $80 each and the shop sent out a flyer announcing another sale with no limit. They also have Cheddites for sale too. Unfortunately, it is in person purchase only. If anyone is in southern Minnesota it may be worth it to stop in at Ahlmans in Morristown.

The store I work parttime at also had Win 209s show up though not quite as cheap at $90/brick. Our store had 4 sleeves come in with a "next ship" date for 2 weeks from now. I never placed any faith in the dates of future shipments but this is the first time I've seen a future date for primers since 2020.

ill wait for a better deal.........

I see Cheddites in a few places, and price is painful, but not lethal. How do they compare to the other 209's?

Cheddites work as well as any other primer in my experience. I've been using them since the mid-1990s. The original suggestion was to use Win 209 data except with a 1/2 grain decrease in powder. That has been refuted for the most part as it is too broad of a suggestion given the number of component choices. With the component shortages of the last few years, data using Cheddites is becoming available so I would suggest using that.

The biggest knock against Cheddites is they can be pierced and may cause accelerated wear of the lower firing pin in many Browning Citori shotguns as well as a few other makes and models. I have not seen nor heard of such wear in any semiauto, pump, SxS, many O/U, as well as the top barrel of my Browning Citori guns. There are some ways of lessening the potential of primer piercing but it does not seem to be a definitive solution in all guns.

The other issue against Cheddites was that they were slightly larger in diameter compared to the U.S. brands which enlarged the primer pockets enough that the American brands may not stay in. As I load all sorts of hulls this trait allows me to make use of many European hulls which often use Cheddite or other brands which are slightly larger in diameter. This difference in diameters may have changed in the last few years based on some readings but it is something to keep in mind as older primers may still be found.

Ballistics products has some good info on Chedites vs others. Click on the 5000 selection. Has psi and other comparison's. Over the years heard a lot of old timers dissing them, I have loaded THOUSANDS without an mis fire or primer loosing seat switching Win 209 & Ched. Recipes on the same hull. Do your research and use a proven recipe.


https://www.ballisticproducts.com/C...00-primers-per-order/productinfo/CH2095/

A word of caution regarding the data in the link. If one reads the fine print at the bottom of the comparison sheet they will see the advisory that states the comparison is for demonstration purposes for just that one single set of components and should not be used to determine the suitability of primer substitutions in different loads. Much the same as what I said above. With the relatively mild load BP used showing an increase in pressure of up to ~2600 psi, a different load could show a higher (or potentially lower) pressure change which could lead to malfunctions, accelerated wear, or even potential damage of the shotgun.

As there is no inkling of what load or loads is/are being considered, I'll stand by my suggestion to find suitable data using Cheddite primers and then base one's component choices off that. I have not always done so, and sometimes regress backwards, but that is the prudent stance when dealing with vastly more unknown than known data.

For the record, I've used tens of thousands of Cheddites over the last 35 years, most of those years I used 10,000+ per year. I current have three plus sleeves on hand so I don't have anything against them. When three people in the household were competitively shooting trap, skeet, and sporting clays as well as lessons/practice a lot of shells get used. In other words, I'm relatively familiar with Cheddite primers.

I've had some misfires over that time with them, as well as with other brands. I've also experienced loose primers in hulls after use with Cheddites as well as similar occurances when loading new and once fired Cheddite hulls. As I mentioned, the primer dimensions may have changed to more the U.S. standard at some point but it is something to still be aware of. I've also experienced the piercing of primers in the bottom barrel of several Browning Citori shotguns as many others have also noted in numerous places. It appears to be a feature of the design of both the bottom barrel and the primer which is why the issue does not seem to occur in the majority of other shotguns nor with most other makes of primers.

Not long ago a couple of the shooters I shoot 5-stand with stated they’d had a few issues with Winchester ammunition, presumably loaded with their primers. Hasn’t happened to me yet, but I don’t shoot many of their shells as they cost more than Federals and Fiocchis.

A while back an STS 12ga shell had a deformed crimp that wouldn’t permit it to chamber. Stuff happens.

Cheddites have longer anvils vs domestic brands. Firing pin protrusion matters if you care about pin longevity. Don Rackley sets replacement Perazzi firing pin lengths in accordance with expected ammunition/primer useage.

Most shooters at our club have switched to Cheddites, as across the US. Pins are pitting at much lower round counts, eventually resulting in perforations. With some doubles (eg Blaser) changing pins is no big deal.
Others.....so my P-gun now sees STS and Win 209s only. Worth the extra money in this case.

For whatever reason our 391 firing pins do not mind Cheddites. Which is a good thing b/c we have lots of Cheddites here.

The problem with Cheddite primers is mostly with the lower barrel of Browning Citori shotguns though I have read of occasional similar issues with other brands of O/U shotguns that have deeper actions. This is due to the angle of the firing mechanism of the bottom barrel and the firing pin protrusion. This geometry is not found in semiauto, pump, SxS, or the top barrel of O/U guns so they are unlikely to have such issues.

When I first began using Cheddites, I replaced the bottom firing pin of my Citori 3 times in about 15,000 rounds. Once I found out what the problem was and that it couldn't be mitigated, I changed what primers used in the bottom and didn't replace the pin again. The upper barrel had thousands of Cheddites fired through it and still had the original pin after a dozen years of use.

Cabela's had Win 209's for $100/ thousand yesterday. 🤣
They had a bunch of powder also.
Man, is their [bleep] expensive!
Much better pricing at Scheels.

Cheddite primers are basically either FJBD primers or for people too cheap to want to reload quality shells. If I can ever reliable get Winchester or Federal primers again, no one has to worry about me buying another Cheddite. I realize some only look at lower price, who cares if they have to buy firing pins they saved a few dollars.

I have loaded thousands of Cheddites in the last couple years, and have had two perforations on my MX8 Perazzi. Pins look OK, but I’m done with Cheddites.

I picked up a few Winchester 209’s at the Scheels in Dallas today.

I picked up 3000 win 209s for $59/1000 at Cal Ranch recently. I'd been using cheddite 209s lately and they've worked well but I thought I'd be good to grab the wins while I could.

Bb

I was able to pick up some more Win 209s today. I was at Scheels and bought a brick. The price wasn't as good as the above poster found but $80/brick wasn't too bad in this day and age. Especially as I had a $25 gift card to bring the out of pocket cost down a little more. They also had Federal 209As for the same price. CCI primers were $10 less per the shelf tag but there weren't any in stock. The price will probably change the next time they are put on the shelf. There was a slot for Remington 209s also, they were $99/brick per the tag but none were available.

On the way home I then stopped at the store I work where we still had a few sleeves of Winchesters left. Scheels is close enough distance wise that my employer price matches them. After subtracting employee discount and a couple $5 coupons the final price was comparable to Scheels. A sleeve of Remington's came in today, as is usual they are significantly higher than everyone else at $105/brick. That has been typical of Remington and the reason I haven't bought any for 30 years.

It is good to see shotshell primers showing up. If quantities grow, maybe prices will drop. One can only hope.

I was in Scheels today.They had Winchester 209's for $79/1000, but would not sell individual 110 count trays which I only needed for my Muzzle loader. They tried to sell me Winchester 209' s that were marked made for 777 , pyrodex of black powder for $17/100. The kid said they were the same as std 209's. When I asked them why they said for 777 or pyrodex, they could not answer.

I know some people cringe when you use the term noblesport.
I guess there was some primers in the past that they produced that maybe cost some issues or stretched primer pockets.

but is racing as two or three years ago I started buying these Noble sports 688 in boxes of 10,000 the drawback is there's a thousand and a tray so they are a bit harder to handle and such. but I have tested them and double a hulls and STS hulls
with several different powders and a few different wads and have found so little difference between them and Winchester 209's..
my findings are not scientific they're on a pattern board and through a chronograph.

and back when you could find Winchester's at 120 or whatever per 100 or a flat could not find them at all I was getting these at the rate of $60 a hundred... but as I said buying 10,000 at a time..
I don't think I'll ever have to buy shotgun primers again as many as I have now LOL..