24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
#19386176 04/14/24
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,645
O
OlRufus Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,645
What caliber/calibers were the rifles referred to by the buffalo hunters needle guns?
Did that term refer to the action or cartridge?


Good judgment comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement! 🥴
GB1

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,829
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,829
From True West History of the American Frontier

A European invention, the needle gun got a lot of use (and publicity) during the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71. The name comes from the firing pin, long and slender like a needle. It pierced clear through the paper-encased cartridge to strike the primer. The .51 caliber gun was the father of all modern bolt-action rifles.

Americans made a few needle guns too, but these were soon replaced by rifles that fired metallic cartridges.

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,645
O
OlRufus Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,645
Thanks MickinColo for your input. That’s about what Dr. Google had shared with me also. I’ve been reading Zane Grey’s Thundering Herd and one of the hunters preferred the needle gun as opposed to the big 50. Some had the Creedmoor sharps but reserved those mainly for injuns.
The fellow using one actually killed a fellow with it and the ones investigating were able to tell he’d been killed by the needle gun. Since it was 50 caliber also it makes you wonder how they did that.


Good judgment comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement! 🥴
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,101
G
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
G
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,101
One of my shooting buddies plays with a French Chassepot needle gun. Rather interesting rifle. Sorry, no pics of the gun but here's a pic of the cartridge. (A dud he bestowed on me. Such a guy!)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Something on the order of 70 gr. powder, 385 gr. bullet. Bullet body is .450 diameter, driving/base band is .465. You can see in the second pic where the "needle" pierced the back of the cartridge on the way to hitting the cap which lies behind the bullet. All the paper is either consumed or blown out the barrel upon discharge, leaving the chamber clean for the next shot.

The rifle is quite accurate, when it actually fires.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 473
Likes: 1
A
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
A
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 473
Likes: 1
The answers here do address guns which were properly called “needle guns”, but given the context of what you read they’re more likely referring to the 50/70 trapdoor which also was referred to by that as a nickname due to the long needle like firing pin.

IC B2

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 666
C
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
C
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 666
Originally Posted by Anteloper
The answers here do address guns which were properly called “needle guns”, but given the context of what you read they’re more likely referring to the 50/70 trapdoor which also was referred to by that as a nickname due to the long needle like firing pin.

This!

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,275
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,275
Anteloper nailed it, the common term of the day for trapdoors was needle gun


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
www.historicshooting.com
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,791
Likes: 1
W
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,791
Likes: 1
What anteloper said is what I have always heard.


Molon Labe
OlRufus #19430648 Yesterday at 11:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,347
B
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
B
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,347
So I have a couple needle guns and didn't know it.

OlRufus #19431083 Yesterday at 02:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,052
S
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
S
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,052
Prussia put the hurt on Austria and France with their "Dreyse needle gun". It is mentioned many times in various histories about German unification and, biographies on Otto von Bismark mention it as well. Bismark was the Prussian Chancellor at the time of unification and held mostly responsible for the unification of German city states, duchies and 'kingdoms' into the nation we think of as Germany today. I have several such histories in my library This is what I always knew as a 'needle gun' until a few years ago when somewhere I read about Wm. F. Cody and his 'needle gun', Lucretia Borgia', which as best I remember was a 50-70 Trapdoor. And I hope my memory hasn't failed me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyse_needle_gun

Last edited by sharps4590; Yesterday at 02:51 PM.

NRA Benefactor 2008

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John 14-6

There is no right way to do a wrong thing
IC B3


Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

603 members (1234, 06hunter59, 1936M71, 007FJ, 160user, 1lessdog, 60 invisible), 2,393 guests, and 1,168 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,192,531
Posts18,491,186
Members73,972
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.101s Queries: 34 (0.006s) Memory: 0.8399 MB (Peak: 0.8928 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-05 15:47:46 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS