Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Is faith without works dead…?

The New Testament manuscripts make it pretty clear that salvation comes by God’s grace alone, through trust and confidence in Jesus alone. Until you get to the book of James. There’s a passage in James 2 that can lead to some confusion on this issue. Does this passage fly in the face of “salvation by God’s grace alone, through trust and confidence in Jesus alone”…? Or does it simply need further examination to be fleshed out…?

I've always felt that Salvation only comes from God's grace but God's grace is earned, not simply applied to everyone regardless. Otherwise there'd be no requirement to turn from sin either.

Is dead faith the same as faith that doesn't exist or never existed?

"As for me. and my house, we will serve the Lord,"

Or is faith that is dead defined as faith that was once alive and active, and now is not? Salvation came when faith was alive. Faith may now be dead but it once was not, and that's when salvation occurred. If God revoked salvation what would that say about it?

Ephesians 2:8-9, 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

True faith will produce works. Simple as that.

While it is alive, yes. Dead faith may not produce works, but that doesn't mean it never existed and salvation never occurred.

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, Roy. We’ve been over this.

Well, now that that is cleared up...

Jesus implies works. Paul does not imply, he flatly states works; which agrees with James.

The New Testament is filled with commands, injunctions, and instructions. It is all God's Word.
Jesus says, "You are My friends if you do what I command you," and "If you love Me you will obey Me."

Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who endures to the end who will be saved.


Matthew 24:13
But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.


Mark 13:13
You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.


Philippians 2:12
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Salvation is by faith alone not by works is very clear from the Scriptures, but James goes a little deeper to identify true saving faith. In James 2 he enlarges on true faith which saves. True saving faith will produce evidence of salvation through changed life and good works. For example if a person says that he or she believes in Christ for forgiveness of sins yet their life has not changed since their profession and they still act/live in sin as they did prior to their professed faith in Christ than James says that kind of faith is useless and does not save. He gives examples of true faith which produced good works or changed life in Abraham and Rahab. Paris Reidhead an old time preacher said that many people will miss heaven by 18 inches, that is they believed in their mind but not by their heart so there was no change in their lives.

In the 1st epistle of John, John gives us very clear evidence of those who are truly saved in order that we may test ourselves, in 1 John 5: 13 he says that he wrote these things that we may know that we have eternal life. Paul also in 2 Cor 13:5 says for us to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith, if you are truly saved than Jesus Christ is in you and He will produce fruit of that salvation by holy life which is evidence of true saving faith. This does not mean that truly born again believer will not occasionally sin but he will not practice or continue to live in sin. Good works prior to salvation are considered by God as filthy rags, but good works after salvation are produced by the holy Spirit who indwells a believer and this is not only acceptable by God but desirable. In John 15 the Lord said that the Father seeks, fruit, more fruit and much fruit which amounts to life lived for him.

Thank You for posting that duke61.

Like.

Just to clarify my statement, God does not accept good works in leu of faith unto salvation, if we think that our good works are enough unto salvation we deceive ourselves because God considers then as filthy rags. Good works/holy life after salvation are evidence of true faith in Christ.

These threads are usually good reads up until the point RingMeat drops a Thermonuclear cut n paste

Alright....who's going to hell this time?

The Catholics?

“The Scriptures are shallow enough for a babe to come and drink without fear of drowning and deep enough for a theologians to swim in without ever touching the bottom" St. Jerome”
― St. Jerome

IMHO.......

John 3:13-18, AMPC (Amplified Classic Bible)

13 And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven—the Son of Man [Himself], [b]Who is (dwells, has His home) in heaven.

14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert [on a pole], so must [so it is necessary that] the Son of Man be lifted up [on the cross],

15 In order that everyone who believes in Him [who cleaves to Him, trusts Him, and relies on Him] may [c]not perish, but have eternal life and [actually] live forever!

16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([d]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

17 For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.

18 He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation—he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.]


Romans 10:9-10
Amplified Bible Classic Edition

9 because if you acknowledge and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord [recognizing His power, authority, and majesty as God], and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart a person believes [in Christ as Savior] resulting in his justification [that is, being made righteous—being freed of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God]; and with the mouth he acknowledges and confesses [his faith openly], resulting in and confirming [his] salvation.

Romans 10:13
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition

13 For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved.


Seems pretty simple to me!


ya!

GWB

Keep in mind that "works" can be as simple as doing nothing beyond praying. Think of someone who's totally bedridden.