Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Is faith without works dead…?

Without works, faith is nothing more than head knowledge. Does a person believe in Jesus, the manifestation of God’s word, enough to live it?

Thanks I know I am not alone when I say that I come to 24HCF to get my theological questions answered

You are correct, true works of God is to live by faith being obedient to His word. God knows our capabilities and will not require more or less of the ability He provides in His service.

IIRC the following quote is attributed to Corrie Ten Boom.......

"Don't wrestle, just nestle."


or Abide!

John 15
King James Version

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


ya!


GWB

Great point.

It's easy to believe that Jesus lived and was who He said He was, but having the faith to DO what He asked of us.... that is a WHOLE 'nuther story!

James wrote to Jews of the dispersion who believed the gospel of the kingdom (James 1:1). Those Jews were under the Law, where faith and works were inseparable. Paul wrote to members of the Church (the body of Christ) under the gospel of grace. Salvation always required faith, but salvation by faith ALONE was never taught before Paul. Abraham was the exception, and Paul used him as an example, Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:1-3.

Faith alone in the death and resurrection of Jesus is now the only way of salvation, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Works are excluded.

I am not sure what James meant.. I do see many Sunday mornings how many people need to be " fed".. They go to church, and come out refreshed. Noting wrong with that. However , there are so many who don't do anything at all. They need to "fed" . After , 30, or 40 yrs. they still need to be "fed", and never doing any of the feeding. After the new faith is in you the honeymoon is over after a while. You need to learn to serve, not just have spiritual food put in front of you like when you were a baby Christian after being saved for decades. I see this a lot. Maybe that is what James was saying. He can be a little raspy in his messages.

Determine your spiritual gifts and apply them.
If nothing else pick up a hammer and join World Changers and put new roofs on folks’ in need.

Not that work secures your salvation but affirms your testimony and between water breaks you can share the elements of The Great Commission

For decades, I struggled to know what it meant to believe in Jesus. I certainly believed the content of the Bible, but I knew that something was not right in me.

Then I read this passage that shook me to my core.

Matthew‬ ‭8‬:‭28‬-‭32‬ ‭ESV‬‬
And when he came to the other side, to the country of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men met him, coming out of the tombs, so fierce that no one could pass that way. And behold, they cried out, “What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?” Now a herd of many pigs was feeding at some distance from them. And the demons begged him, saying, “If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs.” And he said to them, “Go.” So they came out and went into the pigs, and behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the waters.

These demons believed in Jesus. They recognized Him as the Son of God. They even knew of His future to torment them and recognized that time had not yet come.

But they are demons. They are hell-bound. What is wrong with their belief? Their belief is limited to their intellect, but does not extend to their actions.

Demons followed Lucifer into rebellion and were cast out of heaven.

Lucifer and the angels that followed him thought that they could make themselves like God, to be at His level, rather than recognizing their place subordinate to God.

Fallen Lucifer, taking the form of a serpent, successfully tempted Eve into sin, telling her that she could be like God and make her own decisions of what was right and wrong.

Lucifer’s pride caused him to seek to be equal to God. Eve’s pride caused her to seek the same. Each human instinctively seeks the same - I certainly did.

This is why we must surrender control of our lives to God.

Like the demons, I had intellectual belief.

Salvation requires more than head knowledge.

The longest journey is from the head to the heart.

I fought God until I was age 50. I tried to earn my salvation by my works. But I could not maintain obedience. I followed this flawed method of trying and failing until I gave up at age 47 and accepted that I would never be saved. I could not do what it took to be saved.

I was pretty stupid. I arrogantly and consciously thought I was smarter than God. I thought I could make up my own criteria to be saved. I had placed myself above His word.

And then at age 50, I read this passage which changed my life.

Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬-‭3‬ ‭ESV‬‬
Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

That described me perfectly - I was foolishly trying to earn my salvation by my works.

At age 10, I had been moved by the spirit and was baptized. I begun by the spirit.

I then tried to complete my salvation by my works - for 40 years.

But in reality, I refused to give up self control. I did what I wanted - I was a slave to sin and could not break free. Yes, I was quite the hypocrite, playing the church game every Sunday - look good, smell good. I refused to admit that I could not save myself. I refused to admit that I needed Jesus’ sacrifice for my salvation. I was extremely proud - I didn’t need anyone else’s help; not even Jesus’s help.

Galatians 3:2-3 opened my eyes. Dumbfounded and finally humbled (somewhat 😃), I accepted Jesus as my Savior and in that moment I was saved.

After that, obedience and the desire to serve Him (works) came easily. Not to say I am perfect; I can still sin. But now, I go running to God for forgiveness when I sin, knowing that I will be graciously accepted. I no longer hide in shame when I sin. I am no longer separated from God.

His yoke truly is much easier and lighter than what I tried for 40 failed years.

I’m with duke61

What many people miss is that James was written to SAVED CHRISTIANS, plus, they're Jews. They already had the saving faith. James is telling them what to do with it. He isn't saying they have to have works to be saved. He's saying that now that they're saved, they need to have works for the Lord or they'll wither away. Jesus wants us to do something with our salvation.

If your faith is genuine "works" can also signify the changes that take place within your heart and soul as you accept God's gracious salvation and you start your journey of living the Christian life.
This road is a road 'under construction'. We are a work in progress.. none of us will ever be perfected in this life. These "works" will continue throughout our lifetime.
Once you sincerely ask Jesus to live within you and accept Him, you will be changed.

antlers;
Good afternoon sir, I hope all is as well as can be with you and yours.

You've referenced James and it reminded me of a time many years back when a few of us on the 'Fire took a challenge to read James all the way through once a day for a month.

We could switch up versions and I want to say I ended up with King James, New International and The Message sometimes as well.

What I came away from reading it was that if we decide to become servants of a living God, then that's a step of faith on our part.

That said, it seems to me that the same living God desires or at least is pleased when there's an outward change in our behavior - our deeds and works if we can put it that way.

It's not for me to judge others, which is lucky for them and truly for me and only God knows the heart, but it seems to me that the point of "faith without works is dead" might be a plea on James' part to become active servants, not "dead" ones?

That thought or theory goes along with my thought/theory that church, done well, should have a greater net impact on the community as a group/church than we could as individuals.

As I understand it, that's part of our job as servants - to have a positive impact.

For sure I've not gone to seminary or anything remotely close, so could be off the mark.

Thanks for the discussion and all the best to you all this weekend.

Dwayne

This is a good thread.

Agree.

Works as James uses that concept, is corresponding action.

It’s the product of salvation, the results that flow from a Spirit filled life. It’s not a precursor to salvation as some seem the think. Salvation isn’t earned, it’s a gift.

If one is truly saved, works will result. It’s inevitable.

It’s the evidence.

DF

Agreed.
James is basically saying it means nothing to say you believe. Anybody can claim to be a Christian. What matters is how it effects your life and the lives of others. I don't think anyone can be "saved" unless that salvation created some kind of change. You can't be saved without works, at least in the sense of willingness and decision to do what's right even when you don't have to. You can however do lots of things in God's name without ever being saved. Faith without works may be dead but works without faith in the true God may be deadly.

That depends on what you think he asked of us. He doesn't require anything of me except to believe and trust him. Sure, I know I'm supposed to do the right thing. I do some good and some bad, just like everyone else. Possibly the difference is only in what we aspire to be and the willingness to deny our evil natures. Not to say we will always deny that evil nature. That's what grace is all about, but I think a saved person cannot do what he knows is evil without suffering for it at least in his heart. It seems to me that truly evil people revel in the evil itself and devise even more wicked schemes without any remorse at all.

In my opinion only...yes. Did the good book not ask us to feed the hungry, visit the imprisoned, clothe the naked, stand up for the orphan and the widow? Seek righteousness for righteousness sake? Are these not the works our Lord asked us to do when he is not here physically with us?

Judge me.

Sorry, didn't read the thread...really tight on time.

Every time sozo is used in scripture, it is not necessarily talking about eternal salvation.

It can and does often mean nothing more than saving you from harm, or physical death. Like in James.