MOGC linked this video in a thread running on the "Ask The Gunwriters" forum. Phil Shoemaker (458Win) is participating in the thread. I thought that others may not see it because of the forum and the particular thread in which it was linked. So, I am cross-posting here for those who missed it. It contains a lot of wisdom that was spread over many threads a few years ago after the now-famous incident with the bear while Phil was carrying a 9mm handgun loaded with +P hard cast ammo. Enjoy.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
Thanks, folks. I thought the whole thing was fascinating. I thought that the remarks about bear spray (starting around 27 minutes) were particularly interesting, coming from a person with so much experience with both guns and spray. (I suppose his clients that fateful day didn't have any spray.)
I will keep a link to his video handy to deal with heated debates on other forums involving handguns/rifles for bears and handguns versus OC spray. With respect to the former, I used to keep some links handy to some threads here. But, this video is a one stop shop!
On another forum, I already called this a "mic drop" video.
Last edited by Cheyenne; 04/20/24.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
MOGC linked this video in a thread running on the "Ask The Gunwriters" forum. Phil Shoemaker (458Win) is participating in the thread. I thought that others may not see it because of the forum and the particular thread in which it was linked. So, I am cross-posting here for those who missed it. It contains a lot of wisdom that was spread over many threads a few years ago after the now-famous incident with the bear while Phil was carrying a 9mm handgun loaded with +P hard cast ammo. Enjoy.
Excellent interview by Ron Spoomer
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
What I liked the most was Phil's simple no bullschitt answers to Ron's leading questions. Shoot the bear with a well constructed bullet in a place that will do the most good! LOL
Simplicity at it's finest....I would expect nothing less from Phil.
It won't cause me to, but it is affirmation for the heavy hard cast bullet and penetration. I accept his statement as good without any additional need for proof, based on his reputation alone.
My "most likely" is either a .45 Super or .460 Rowland, loaded with a 255 grain hard cast at 1075 to 1100 fps. In a Glock 21, that gives me at least 13 shots, 17 with the extended mags. I can run the Rowland up in speed, but recoil begins to slow repeat shot down. I don't quite have the "warm & fuzzies" with a .45+P with a 255 just yet. I'd like at least 1000 fps.
I do have a .44 Mag, but times between shots and time needed to reload are not as good as with the 45S/460R.
Would this cause anyone to change their outdoor carry gun to 9mm?
Change to a 9mm? No. Consider using one? Yes.
The lesson I took from this is that you have to be confident and proficient with whatever weapon you carry for self-defense. And you have to pick the right bullet for the task.
If you are going to carry a .44 Mag (or something similar), then be proficient with it. Practice with it. Get used to handling the recoil and putting quick follow-up shots into your target. It doesn't do any good to have "the most powerful handgun in the world, that could blow your head clean off" if you cannot shoot well with it under stress. Many people will derive a false sense of confidence from having a hand cannon, which will do them no good at all if they cannot place their shots quickly and accurately. I've personally never fired a .44 Magnum. It would be a terrible choice for me.
For many of us, that means that we might well be served carrying a smaller self-defense pistol than we would choose if we were deliberately going to hunt bears. The two situations are not the same. That is one of the major lessons I got from Phil's story. Phil and Ron were not advocating going hunting for big bears with a 9mm. They were explaining why it could be a good choice for a carry pistol and how to get the most out of it for self-defense.
My outdoor carry pistol is a Sig P226 in .357 Sig. I chose it because it offers the same ballistics as a .357 Magnum, but holds 12 shots. That's the same pistol I keep for home defense. When I carry it with me outdoors, I usually have 125-grain FMJ's in it. At home, I have 125-grain hollow points. I don't live in "big bear country" (only black bears and the occasional cougar around me). After watching the interview, I have thought a lot more about my bullet selection and will probably get some new 147-grain loads (and practice with them). I have other pistols I could carry, but I have put a couple of thousand rounds through the P226, so I feel confident and proficient with it. I've headshot many squirrels with it at ranges up to 25 yards (always nice to bring some meat home if the bucks won't cooperate). I don't find it much different than shooting the Beretta I carried through most of my military career (although the Sig has far better ergonomics to me). The Beretta is the only other pistol I own which I have fired more than my Sig. But it is larger and not as powerful and I just don't like it (I only bought it so I could practice with a Beretta in between annual qualifications). So, I carry the Sig. But loaded with the right bullets, that 15-shot Beretta would be a good choice for me as a carry weapon. I may not like it, but I can shoot it very well.
