Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Phil Shoemaker - A Bear Pistol Question:

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Why would he ask for a transcript if he weren’t interested in Phil’s thoughts? Maybe he’s hearing impaired. Maybe he doesn’t care for the interviewer. Maybe he just likes reading. That doesn’t sound like virtue signaling to me.

You hit a lot in the video so a minor tech mistake is understandable and takes nothing from the account. I read the account/saw the pictures previously and it seems the story has stayed very consistant.

That was no midget bear and winning that fight with a 9mm is litterally "Legendary".

Thanks for taking the time to do the interview as it was well worth the time to listen.

I’ll never hunt big bears and I’ll never meet Mr. Shoemaker but I certainly enjoyed this podcast. I’ve watched it twice and everyone I’ve sent it to has enjoyed it.



Thanks for posting the link

I have chrono'd the same Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman +P ammo out of multiple guns and got the following muzzle velocities using a Labradar, except as otherwise indicated:
Glock 19, Gen 4 (4 inch barrel) using a Chrony at 10 feet: 1058 fps, ES 28, 5 shots
Glock 26, Gen 4 (3.5 inch barrel) using a Chrony at 10 feet: 1036, ES 13, 5 shots
Sig P365 (3.1 inch barrel): 1010 fps, ES 40, 10 shots (Mackay_Sagebrush’s Lost River Ammunition Co. version of the same load, 989, ES 22, 5 shots)
Sig P365 XL (3.7 in barrel): 1066, ES 23, 5 shots (Lost River version of the same load, 1061, ES 20, 5 shots)
Ruger PC Carbine 1267, ES 19, 5 shots (Lost River version of the same load, 1281, ES 15, 5 shots)

I made up a multi-media torture test, and the ammo out of the Carbine did substantially better than out of the P365 XL. That should not be a surprise. But, we have actual proof that it works in a 4 inch barrel (per S&W Model 39 specs) when necessary, nonetheless! So, it doesn't matter.

I really appreciate the interview, Mr. Shoemaker!

Thanks Phil, will check that out. And thanks for all you contribute to the community.

This article confirms your point.


https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/update-handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attack-93-cases-97-effective/

Out of 93 incidents reported handguns stopped the attack 97% of the time. Didn't necessarily kill the bear but stopped the attack. This is ALL handguns with all types of ammo used. If you read over the article 44 mag was probably most often used, but there are plenty of 38's, 357's 9mm's, various 45's 40's and 10mm pistols used. Even a few 380's and 22's. And not just black bear, but the larger species as well.

I very much enjoyed that, thanks for sharing.

A wonderfully pragmatic approach from a wealth of experience.

I side with prairie goat -

I can read 5 times faster than people on a video talk, and I don't miss words when I'm reading like I do when I'm listening (especially with all the years of hearing damage I've accumulated).

I can also instantly go back over a passage a few times if there's something I didn't understand, rather than hitting the rewind button and hoping I didn't go back too far, or more frustratingly, not far enough.

What a time waster to watch video compared to reading!

Some of you won't understand this viewpoint, but those of you who watch movies with the captions on will probably stand up and shout YES!

As stated earlier, I live in what passes for “bear county “ down here. With the big swamp next to my house, I’m probably within a half mile of a black bear most all the time. Any gun seems like more than enough. In fact I’m much more likely to succumb to a bee sting or lightning strike. I’m usually packing heat, but not primarily for bears.

My hat’s off to the guys that coexist easily with brown/grizzly bears. I get to AK occasionally and my comfort level around those things is pretty low. They seem to like being around me much more so than I do them.

There isn't a spitwads worth of difference in that 9mm load vs. 357 Sig load. Try a hardcast in either one.........

Your mind will be blown when you learn that the video posted was captioned and it can be played at fast speed plus it can be paused and backed up to replay anything you struggled to comprehend.

Ad in the ability to see the experts non verbal comunications and anyone who claims a simple transcript it a better medium for comunication most likely is themselves a poor communicator.

Phil did write the story up with pictures which is also very much worth the time to read and view. I sort of thought everyone who had an interest in the subject matter had already seen the article as it was posted here a few times.

30 seconds on a search engine provided multiple returns. Here is one of many with pictures for those who are afflicted with ADD and much to busy posting drivel on the CAMPFIRE to actually watch the interview. Good luck.

Shoemaker Brown Bear DLP with 9X19mm

Everyone is fixated on the caliber.
Brown bears are more " docile" then a WY/MT/ID griz
Shots thru the ribs are not the shots you are afforded if the griz is coming at you (charging)
What would have happened if the 9mm hit a rib and deflected or stopped???
The brown bear didn't stop right away, it took a while then meandered off. Not a good plan if the bear is separating your skin from your muscles while you bleed out.

Carry enough gun
Know how to use enough gun
Be able to hit a moving target

I would guess that Mackey Sagebrush cooks up some very potent hard cast rounds for various handguns, that would be effective on bears.

L.W.

He did point out that the 147 gr hardcast from a 9mm gave virtually the same penetration as any other handgun round that he had tested. I've seen other test results in gel showing that bullet actually penetrating deeper than larger/heavier loads from bigger handguns. Unless I'm mis hearing something from the podcast he felt that 9mm load was as good as any other HANDGUN load in a defensive situation, bigger guns were better for hunting. He pointed out that in his testing he was able to get off 3 accurate shots with the 9mm in the same amount of time as 1 aimed shot with his 44 mag.

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around it too. Especially on bear that large. I've carried 147 gr Buffalo Bore in 9mm for several years, even before Shoemaker's bear incident, around home where black bear are common. We are planning a road trip this summer and will be camping in both Glacier and Yellowstone. While I respect Mr. Shoemaker's opinion, at this point I'd just sleep a little better at night with my 10mm loaded with Buffalo Bore 220 gr loads at 1200 fps.

And I really did enjoy watching the podcast. I would normally never sit for nearly an hour for something like that, but I enjoyed every minute.

I don’t think I would consider a 800-1200 pound bear “more docile” than a 400-600 pound bear when it is actually charging. And hoping to hit the head of a rapidly approaching bear, that is swinging his head rapidly from side to side , when your body is dumping adrenaline into your system with only a single shot from some sort of heavy recoiling hand cannon may be some peoples idea of a proper solution . But, having been killing big bears for over 40 years , it’s not a solution I would recommend .

I listened to it while I was preparing and cooking supper. I occasionally looked at it too, and actually appreciated the video. You get a sense for what a humble and knowledgeable man Phil is. When Ron asked questions, in particular about bear behavior, Phil unhesitatingly and authoritatively responded. You won't get the same degree of appreciation from reading that you will from watching and listening.

None of that takes away from the fact that you are correct. You could read a transcript much faster.

How many charging WY/MT/ID grizzlies have you seen stopped with a handgun? Just curious.

A rib is not going to stop that bullet. In fact rib splinters may help create a little secondary wounding. The bullet may deflect some, but will still find the vitals. I don't know that from shooting bears, but I have done enough reading and video watching to strongly believe what I wrote to be the case.

Great to have fact checkers...

Zero
Neighbor stopped one with a 41 mag. The other folks I know used a rifle. Still other folks never got a shot off - it happened so quick. Some never cleared leather.
You can carry your 9. I got my education from John Linebaugh. I'll go with his results of the heaviest bullet at 12-1250 fps