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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,673 Likes: 22
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,673 Likes: 22 |
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,820 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,820 Likes: 3 |
Looks like a great rig
If Uncle Sugar is paying
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,802 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,802 Likes: 11 |
good thing that new round is three times as effective, cause it's also twice as heavy and bulky and the troops can't carry as many
Sam......
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,149 Likes: 9
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,149 Likes: 9 |
good thing that new round is three times as effective, cause it's also twice as heavy and bulky and the troops can't carry as many Maybe Marksmanship will come back in fashion. Hit more/need less. GR
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Woodsman1991 |
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,380 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,380 Likes: 1 |
As I understand it it is supposed to be equal to the .308. Why not load the .308 with 125 or 130 grain bullets and go right along. Unlimited budget I guess.
Rick
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 6 |
As I understand it it is supposed to be equal to the .308. Why not load the .308 with 125 or 130 grain bullets and go right along. Unlimited budget I guess.
Rick How do you figure the 308 is equall to the 277 Fury? The case capacity is equall but the Fury runs at 80,000 PSI with is for above the 308 Win
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 666 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 666 Likes: 1 |
As I understand it it is supposed to be equal to the .308. Why not load the .308 with 125 or 130 grain bullets and go right along. Unlimited budget I guess.
Rick How do you figure the 308 is equall to the 277 Fury? The case capacity is equall but the Fury runs at 80,000 PSI with is for above the 308 Win Is the cost, complexity, and inevitable teething problems of this new system justified by a dramatic increase in effectiveness over 7.62×51mm NATO?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -Isaac Asimov
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1 member likes this:
duckster |
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,745 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,745 Likes: 4 |
good thing that new round is three times as effective, cause it's also twice as heavy and bulky and the troops can't carry as many Maybe Marksmanship will come back in fashion. Hit more/need less. GR good thing that new round is three times as effective, cause it's also twice as heavy and bulky and the troops can't carry as many Maybe Marksmanship will come back in fashion. Hit more/need less. I doubt that! Nobody within a woke military knows what marksmanship is! GR
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,745 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,745 Likes: 4 |
All they needed to do was adopt the 6.5 x 47 Lapua!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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sactoller |
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,811 Likes: 8
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,811 Likes: 8 |
Are the rifles going to be water cooled? 80k psi, two piece case in a hot rifle in combat conditions….what can go wrong?
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,220 Likes: 25
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,220 Likes: 25 |
Are the rifles going to be water cooled? 80k psi, two piece case in a hot rifle in combat conditions….what can go wrong? Most everything.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Jim_Conrad |
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,383 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,383 Likes: 28 |
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 58 Likes: 1
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 58 Likes: 1 |
-6.8×51mm:
Muzzle velocity: 2,700-3,000 ft/s (823-914 m/s)
Muzzle energy: 2,385 J (1,759 ft-lbf)
Effective range: 800-1,000 meters (875-1,094 yards)
-7.62x51mm NATO:
Muzzle velocity: 2,700 ft/s (823 m/s)
Muzzle energy: 2,300 J (1,700 ft-lbf)
Effective range: 500-700 meters (547-764 yards) The cartridges are not equal, the case dimensions are the same but the bullet in the 6.8x51mm (.277 Fury) is smaller in diameter. The 6.8x51mm case is a two part case using a steel head which allows for higher chamber pressures. I own several 16 inch barreled .308 rifles and the best muzzle velocity I can get is with 110gr Hornady Varmint bullets (around 2850 FPS). Using 135gr bullets in my short barreled .308s, I can push them up to around 2700 FPS. The 6.8x51 military cartridge is able to push a 135gr bullet up to 3000 FPS. The original contract was for a replacement for the M249 (SAW) machine gun. Field experience proved that while the SAW has a high cyclic rate, it's range isn't that good (4 or 500 meters in the real world). SAW guns were getting taken out by guys with an old WWI Enfield. The military wanted to upgrade all of their infantry weapons to enable greater point contact range (the distance you can shoot a bad guy). The 6.8x51mm won the contract simply because it performs better than the heavier 7.62x51mm bullet at long range. It's a better version of the 6.5 Creedmore. The drop of the 6.8x51mm, 135gr bullet with a 3000 FPS muzzle velocity at 1000 yards, is almost half what the 7.62x51mm, 135gr bullet, with a muzzle velocity of 2700 FPS, is (30 ft vs. 54 ft). Energy at 1000 yards; 385 for the 6.8 and 235 for the 7.62.
Last edited by montram; 05/01/24.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,350 Likes: 43
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,350 Likes: 43 |
As I understand it it is supposed to be equal to the .308. Why not load the .308 with 125 or 130 grain bullets and go right along. Unlimited budget I guess.
Rick How do the BCs and downrange energu of those 125/130 grain .308's compare to the 277? Not snark, just thinking. Being able to engage the enemy effectively before he can you is an advantage.
Me
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 58 Likes: 1
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 58 Likes: 1 |
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,673 Likes: 22
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,673 Likes: 22 |
-6.8×51mm:
Muzzle velocity: 2,700-3,000 ft/s (823-914 m/s)
Muzzle energy: 2,385 J (1,759 ft-lbf)
Effective range: 800-1,000 meters (875-1,094 yards)
-7.62x51mm NATO:
Muzzle velocity: 2,700 ft/s (823 m/s)
Muzzle energy: 2,300 J (1,700 ft-lbf)
Effective range: 500-700 meters (547-764 yards) The cartridges are not equal, the case dimensions are the same but the bullet in the 6.8x51mm (.277 Fury) is smaller in diameter. The 6.8x51mm case is a two part case using a steel head which allows for higher chamber pressures. I own several 16 inch barreled .308 rifles and the best muzzle velocity I can get is with 110gr Hornady Varmint bullets (around 2850 FPS). Using 135gr bullets in my short barreled .308s, I can push them up to around 2700 FPS. The 6.8x51 military cartridge is able to push a 135gr bullet up to 3000 FPS. The original contract was for a replacement for the M249 (SAW) machine gun. Field experience proved that while the SAW has a high cyclic rate, it's range isn't that good (4 or 500 meters in the real world). SAW guns were getting taken out by guys with an old WWI Enfield. The military wanted to upgrade all of their infantry weapons to enable greater point contact range (the distance you can shoot a bad guy). The 6.8x51mm won the contract simply because it performs better than the heavier 7.62x51mm bullet at long range. It's a better version of the 6.5 Creedmore. The drop of the 6.8x51mm, 135gr bullet with a 3000 FPS muzzle velocity at 1000 yards, is almost half what the 7.62x51mm, 135gr bullet, with a muzzle velocity of 2700 FPS, is (30 ft vs. 54 ft). GarandThumb was getting 3061 or greater fps with less standard deviation and greater ft lbs of energy out of the .277/6.8. I own a 6.8 SPC, but I'm not here to argue with .308 fans. This is merely an informational post. You do you.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,013 Likes: 2
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,013 Likes: 2 |
Garand originally wanted a 277 chambering in his M1, enabling the use of a 10 round en bloc clip.
MacArthur disagreed and convinced the ordnance dept to stay with the 30-06. His logic was that there were huge stockpiles of '06 M2 Ball surplus after the Great War. This lowered the loaded clip capacity to 8 rounds
They better put all their effort into finding an effective means to defend against drones and hypersonic missiles instead of infantry cartridges. On the battlefield today, large volumes of suppressive fire is the MO. Given the high pressure this new cartridge exhibits, I don't know if it's the best choice. I'm no expert so could very likely be wrong.
Wonder if we even have a significant stockpile of .556 and 7.62X51 and what they intend to do with it?
MAGA!
"an armed society is a polite society"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,282 Likes: 23
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,282 Likes: 23 |
113 grain .277"? That B/C can't be too awful high.
They may only hold 2 Mil out to 600 but I would bet it'll start dropping wayyyyyyy faster than that not much further out.
As far as the 2 piece case design, I was curious about that the first time I saw a .277 Fury round, a few weeks ago. I am skeptical, but they must have put it through some serious testing. Time will tell, I guess.
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 58 Likes: 1
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 58 Likes: 1 |
https://www.army-technology.com/contractors/jamming/jammers4u/Jammers4u specialises in the production and sales of high-quality signal jammers, and offers an extensive range of jammers for military applications.
Drone jammers include portable, desktop, suitcase, briefcase and vehicle-mounted models for various uses. Law enforcement and the military can already jam drones as needed.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,802 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,802 Likes: 11 |
another issue with this is that the Army is going to issue this crap first to the Airborne troops. The ones in first by parachute, with dicey resupply and support, and any possible extra manpower that shows up would be using different weapons and ammunition. A recipe for disaster.
Sam......
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