Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Another approach.....

I started this as to not hijack the other thread.
Lets talk about this.
If a 7mm 150 grain Barnes Tipped triple shock will expand to 1500 fps. So several rounds will easily start this in the 2700 to 2900 fps range, 7mm-08, 7x57, 280, even a downloaded 7mm Rem mag. (damm...did I just say downloaded ? )
So for North America and plains game, what more does he need ? I am thinking a full power load for most game, but a 2000 fps or so load for a whitetail-in-the-woods load where shots are within 100 yards. Grafs and MidSouthShooters have a good supply of these bullets. So buy about 800 or so, and be set for life. 7mm-08 gets my nod, I can make brass from several other calibers. And that round is easy to make shoot well. And it feeds well. And 308 and 260 Rem brass are available with small or large primers.
But...aint there always a but...what could ever be more boring ?
Thoughts ?
Charlie

Boring can be fun...

Charlie,
I’ve kindve applied that thought for a long time. Have bought up a lot of bullets that work well for the gamut of big game.

Although I do sometimes change up bullets based on the critter (pronghorns mostly).

But, TTSXs are getting expensive. And hearing lots of good things about ETips (I’ve seen only two elk killed with ETips—barely enough to make a judgement), I’ve bought up probably 1500-2000 ETips in several of my favorite hunting calibers at significantly less cost from SPS than the going price of TTSXs.

As far as the other thread, I think cost of bullets drives a lot of that “rationalization” of more traditional non-premium bullets. Also these days more attention is being put on BC over terminal performance.

Between myself, family, friends, and guiding, pretty sure I’ve had more slightly more elk races due to poor bullet performance than poor marksmanship.

I load for worse case scenario, and when I had a 371 inch bull going directly away from me at 250 yds almost 35 years ago, the 270, 150g Partition made the trip lengthwise through a 750 lb elk—something a traditional C&C bullet would never do.

So I agree with your thinking—or at least you’re affirming my thinking!

Suspect the 2000 fps load would be suboptimal at best. While Barnes say they’ll expand at fairly low velocity, IME the expansion and imposed tissue trauma at low velocity is a lot less than ideal.

If a guy wants a light short range load, start with a lot softer bullet - in a 7mm I’d look at what the single shot pistol guys are using.

Or better yet use a separate gun, so there’s no worry of the incorrect load/scope zero and less opportunity for Murphy to rear his head.

My question would be, If you're going to load at those velocities, why do you need/want an expensive mono, when there are a host of CnC bullets that will perform just as well, and much more economically?

Luckily, there are a lot of cartridge and bullet combinations that would perform this task. That would decentralize the consumer focus on a single bullet or cartridge should we be doomed to fall for it.

Wasn't it Mel Forbes who once said that "there isn't much a 140grain bullet at 2900fps cannot do for US hunting"?

Anyone who has used a 7x57 already knew this, but the theme is sound. If you're sold on magnums, just back up another 100 yards or so, before you take the shot.

If I were to want a cartridge that propels a suitable weight bullet at only 2700fps I’d not bother with any mono bullets as my own experience has shown they love lots of velocity. And while I’m sure a hunter could do just fine with a 7-08 or 308 loaded to that speed, it’s not something I’ve ever cared to use. Being a product of the ‘60s and ‘70s I love my magnums! Either a 300 or some sort of 7mm magnum pushing a mono or partition bullet at 3000fps or more has been my recipe for over 50 years. It ain’t broke so I’m not changing!

Bob Hagel and Warren Page approved this message !!!

We are talking hunting rifles right? Not rifles that you shoot 50 rounds in a match every week and 50 more for practice? The cost of bullets is not an issue for me when hunting, but in the event of a less than perfect shot, reliable performance and minimal meat damage is my goal. With shots up to 300 yards or so 2800fps MV and a Barnes has been my go to for 25 to 30 cal.

I can’t help but agree.

Mr Sisk
A long time ago I conducted a thought experiment and concluded that my ideal general purpose hunting cartridge should move a 150 grain .277”-.284” bullet at 3000. I started using a .280R then a 270W. I have been distracted by magnum cases and bigger bores but today I see no reason to move from the 270W.

So I like your idea of a 150 .284” bullet but I would rather have 2900 than 2700. The 7-08 will need to work pretty hard to get much over 2700 in a 22” barrel. The 280R would get there. Incidentally I would give serious consideration to the Swift Scirocco 7mm 150.

I should hope that every opinion would be prefaced with the animal, conditions, and typical yardage in the environs hunted. All to often we assume that everybody's experience matches our own. What works for a guy in Montana hunting elk/mule deer where shots may well be measured in hundreds of yards is different from what a guy hunting back east here needs where shots can often be measured in tens of yards in the laurel thickets, hardwoods, and swamps. For the latter application I think Charlie's reasoning is spot on as long as the chosen bullet will expand, and I take it a step further and more often as I slowly wise up it's soft cast .30 to .35 bullets at 1600-2000fps. A 100-150 pound whitetail doesn't need a death ray to kill it.

(Yet I still see tons of guys around here toting guns with "magnum" in their names sporting Hubble telescopes. Conclusion: machoism is a real thing....)

That works for me.

Nothing wrong with your idea. But...
I would forego the 2000fps load, and not necessarily need a mono.

I am more of a 270 guy shooting 130's and 155's to 3000fps. Monos, bonded, and C&C. They all work.

Have done reduced loads for beginning hunters to reduce recoil, they work too. 1800-2400fps with 85-140gr bullets. Monos, Bonded, and C&C.

I'd have to say, in these times, going for a lifetime amount of supplies is a good move, however boring it may be. Then if you still want to mess with the more interesting things, have at it, while funds and availability last.

It's a calming thing, to have your backup plan already in place.

Also, being bored is a lot easier to take with a belly full of venison.

40 yards is getting on out there.

Mel Forbes might of said it Aussie, but I remember John Sundra writing something very similar: “there isn’t much you can’t do with a 150-gr bullet at 3000 fps” (slight paraphrase mine).

If I remember the gist of the article it was in correctly, the subject was his own 7mm JRS, essentially a morphed 280 if II recall correctly.

As it is, at the end of my big game hunting career, except for deer, and with waving many rifle/cartridge combo’s down the road, I’m left with a little custom 284 Win with which my experience agrees completely with Forbes and Sundra.

I’m not a long range shooter or hunter. The bullets I’ve been using with good effect are the pointy 140-gr TTSX at around 3150 but the old C&C Hornady 139-gr BTSP’s G1 BC is (surprisingly to me) is very close and has never not had a good rep for deer and such. Even elk.

And I have a lot of them.

The main problem with choosing a particular bullet by the hundreds or thousands before testing them in your rifle is running the risk that your rifle may not like them, especially at low velocities or even maxed-out! My 9.3 x 62, like most 9.3 x 62s is suberbly accurate using different bullets, but it hates the 270gr Speer not matter what I've tried with it. Then it prefers the 232 Oryx at very modest MVs. So I stick with what it likes: Noslers and the 320 Woodleigh. In 7-08, my favorite deer load was the 162gr Hor BTSP at ~2800 fps. Yeah, I know way over specs, eh? Tell that to my rifle, an M70 Featherweight, salvaged from the hands of someone who tried to improve its accuracy by "floating" the barrel. The problem with that was he apparently had five thumbs on each hand!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Bob,
I have a mate who built what I called, "the lifetime project", because he is an engineer (German heritage) who started with a Super Grade action, which he hand honed, had engraved, gold added and named his perfect bullet within the engraving and then added a custom match grade barrel, and a list of other mods.

The rifle hated his perfect bullet choice and he never mentions it to me anymore. It can be a painful problem if you submit to building perfection instead of accepting it where you find it.

The other common issue being the discontinuance of a bullet or a mod to it that totally neglects your interests.
John

Along similar lines - hunting several different 7mm-08 rifles with various barrel lengths ( from 18 1/2 -24") shooting either 120 or 140 grain TTSX bullets should cover most situations concerning pronghorn, deer, elk or moose hunting in the States or Canada. That was what I have chosen to do ( while also playing around with the LRX 145 grainers for long range hunting opportunities.)