Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Earliest Enoch Tue engraved rifle?

and ponder me this...why would Savage put a brass plug in the chamber?
( I suspect it was done after it left the factory)

George Adams had a large group of engraved rifles at one time.

As I recall, George did some writing on Savage engraved rifles in gun magazines etc. and he made reference to a book he intended to publish about same. Last time I talked to him out in Tulsa he indicated an unexpected divorce etc. caused him to change plans and many of his rifles were necessarily disposed of. Damn shame! George is a colorful and interesting Texas kind of guy. Wish we had more like him around.

Doug, you got me. I don't know. Kind of interesting following the trail of these rifles.

Jan 1988 Guns magazine had an article "Refined Savages" by George Adams. It features photos of a cased engraved 1899 that was made for Horace Dodge of the Dodge Corporation. Adams indicated that this gun had features of both a Monarch and Rival.
It mentions that he was planning to write a book, what a pity it never came to be.
BillR

Rory
First time I am seeing those pictures.WOW!What a collection.Whouldnt mind owning some of those.Thanks for posting.Jed thanks for sharing those and the info.


Mike

Calhoun,
That certainly is a nice Grade B.
As you may know I do know a little about the art. What you may find interesting is how long it takes some to engrave. I have a record of the Boss Gun Company in England in which is a letter to their engraving company in which they want a matched pair of doubles engraved in the best quality work and that the customer needed them completed for Christmas. The date on the letter is Dec 21st. Oh yes they also needed to case harden the actions and blue the remaining parts. That is an engraving job!

LRF, if I remember correctly, you have done some engraving. How long would you expect it to take a full time engraver to do a rifle like Rory's ("B" = Leader grade)?

I don't know exactly but there is a way to do a calculation.
Take the price Savage received for a Grade B gun, take 50 to 66% of the cost (this is what the engravers was paid) and then divide it by what an honest hours wage was in the early 20th century. I don't know what that was but a little research on the web could reviel that number. This would give you an estimate as good as any I could offer.
One difference between a 99 and say a Boss double is number of pieces. The more pieces the more people can be working on the gun at one time. For the 99 it is basically just one piece and only one person can work on it at a time. Many firms had numerous engravers in various stages of skill. I do not know about Mr. Tue but I suspect he had assistants from time to time and I would also guess that gun engraving was just part of his engraving business.

Good idea! Savage would not be doing the engraving at a loss. We know the additional cost of the different engraving patterns and I think there is some labor costs stated in the Perris letters.

In 1904 a skilled toolmaker received $3.75/day. So, if Tue was paid $4 to $5/day and "B" grade engraving cost $10 extra, we are looking at around two days labor.

15 years (1901-1916) x 300 days (6 day week?)/ 2 days per unit average = 2250 units. That is a very ruff calculation but in his total time at Savage I think the 1000 units published would have been very possible. Probably more.

Comments????

Going from Mabe's flyer.. 204 months == 4080 work days == 2000 units if 2 days per. Close to your number.

But I agree with dropping it down to 1000'ish also, you have to presume that he did other stuff and wasn't 100% busy every day.


2 days to do B engraving.. wow. In today's terms, that'd be $50 - $75/hour for a total of $800 to $1200?

Rick, To the best of my knowledge I believe there were also about 200 factory engraved Savage pistols produced between 1907 and 1928. Not sure if or how much of a role Tue may have played.

The 1000 guns were only 1899-99. This did not take in what was done out side the factory.

Rick & Calhoun,
Nice math. 10 hour days, 2 days seems very right to me. The Grade B engraving is not complicated and the patterns were very standard.

The $75 maybe a bit light for today but the calculations are very reasonable and $1200 to $1600 is not out of the question. I think you have it.

Mr Tue was probably a busy person and as I said most likely not all he engraved was guns. Engraving names on jewelry and other articles could have easily consummed a good share of his time. We will never know since that stuff was never recorded.

It is an interesting subject for this group of collectors to ponder. Very nice subject and I hope I have added some value.

LRF, don't how much he would have done on the side. As I understand it he was a Savage employee up through the 1920's. Though it sounds as though he may have done some engraving on Savages before he went to work for them.

Ok, thanks

The factory records showed TUE bought guns that later showed up

as some of the most engraved 1899's ever done.

Jed do you have a picture of the "Lion's Head" rear sight?

John, as Tue is reported to be the only engraver the pistols would be his work also.

There are also engraved 1903's and 1914's (.22's) and probably other models as well.

Good thought Rick. I plumb forgot about 22's etc. I have seen a couple of 22's that were outstanding.