Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders difference between FF and FFF??

Can someone tell me the difference between FF and FFF powder? I have 777 FFF, and Cleanshot FFF loose powder. However I see FF referenced most often. Is there an advantage of one over the other?

Thanks.

Mark

The more the F's, the finer the overall grain size of the powder. This will vary widely between the substitutes you mention and authentic black powder and will even vary between the brands of each of these propellants, and will vary even still between different lots of the same brand of propellant.

Generally speaking, the larger the bore, the less finer the propellant needs to be. I have observed how many enthusiasts go with finer grain such as FFFg even in larger bores due to greater accuracy. That is what I have heard and not something I have tested for myself.

FFFFg is used primarily for priming the pan of a flinter. I have also heard that using a too fine for caliber propellant will take a greater toll on the barrel near the breech.

Regards, sse

The general rule is that .50 calibre and over use FF while .50 calibre and under use FFF. Herein lies the rub; the finer the granulation the faster the burn, hence the greater the breach pressure. If on is using a traditional longrifle FF used in a .50 calibre will give muzzle energy and velocity equal to FFF but at reduced breach pressure. Since the breach plug is generally just a few inches from my eye, and since it�s not unheard of for these little lug nuts to slip their threads, I opt for FF in .50�s and over. For rifles .45 calibre and under I use FFF because they use much less powder in their loadings and the breach pressure is less of a concern.

With black powder the burn will continue the length of the barrel so in traditionally long barreled ( 36� to 44�) rifles there�s no hurry for the dry powder to convert into an expanding gas. This by the way is why black powder rifles �push� the shooter instead of �kick.�

Some shooters with very short (20�to 26�) barrels will try to use large loads of FFF, but if you take the time to shoot you rifle from a bench with a sheet on the ground directly in front of the bench you�ll most likely find that a lot of the black powder is leaving the barrel unburned, these means that the powder for a short time was part of the projectile and therefore an obstruction in the barrel. This is also true with people shooting a gazillion grains of FF from some shoulder cannon when 75 to 100 grains will do for .50 calibres. (See breach pressure above.) Take a hint from old black powder cartridges: 25-20, 32-20, 38-40, 38-55, 44-40, 45-70, 50-75 and so on. Don�t include the Sharps cartridges in your looking as these were much different rifles.

I�ve always been strictly a black powder and patched round ball man so I�ve no clue about other powders and projectiles; and when the demons invade my smoke poles big time, I feel I have no clue about anything.

Haggis

Bona Na Cron

Haggis - I'm with you on that one. I forgot to mention that probably the biggest use of the finer grain B/P is with the pistols. They need a quicker burn.



Regards, sse

Thanks to all. All I have used is FFF, in fact I do not think I have ever seen FF outside of the can. Thanks again.

Mark.

Gundog others have already mentioned the pressure differences between 2f and 3f and these are real differences but I know many knowledgable BP shooters who use 3f for everything regardless of caliber but they always cut back on the charges used, if they normally use 100 gr of 2f they'll cut back to just 70gr of 3f. 3f will generally burn cleaner and loading that second shot will usually be easier. Sam Fadala wrote an article where he and Dale Storey tryed to blow up a pipe gun mounted on a plank with a patented breech. As I remember they were up to triple charges with 6 projectiles before the barrel let loose, really not recommended unless it is a controlled study by men who knew what they were doing. And no matter what you load you will never make a 30-06 out of your muzzle loader so it is futile and dangerous to try and we should just except the parameters of the equipment we are using like our forefathers did. This is only my belief but I think manufacturers set their load limits low enough so they will safely handle an accidental double load. In reading stories of past herd hunters on horseback they just reached into their pouch of loose powder and grabbed a handful, I think hunters today have better guns made of better steel and they are taught proven scientific, safe loading methods and not just what worked for grandpa. I guess if an accident happened while using 3f in a gun recommended for 2f your family might lose a lawsuit. Sorry for all of the rambling.

Yep 3F is mostly used for C&B revolvers but you can use it in rifle -just less of it is required to get about the same velocity as 2F IE where if you use 100 gr of 2F in a .50 cal you could use 75 and get about or the same performance. Just don't make the mistake and shove 100 gr of 3F in the gun cause you might get a nasty surprise and some forceful recoil!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Smoke em in the field!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />