Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire If we got to actually vote to secede, which states would go?

Let's suspend non-belief and don our trusty tin-foil for a moment and speculate on which states would actually vote to secede if they thought they could get away with it and not get Abe Lincolned.

I think you can rule out the Yankee corridor and the mid-Atlantic states down to Virginia. Even Maryland, a nominal Confederate state would not vote to go. So the first state on the eastern seaboard would be Virginia, followed by North and South Carolina, West Virginia, and Georgia. I think Florida is too full of characters who don't share these values. They would be a no-go. All the rest of the gulf states would go...Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas. The Mid-South of Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas and Oklahoma. Now you've got the border states of Kansas and Missouri. Kansas has a bunch of freedom-loving people, mixed in with an extremely small population of Democrats and then probably the biggest group-liberal Republicans. Would enough of them swing to the side of freedom? I dunno. Missouri's outcome is the same, although their analysis would be totally different. I don't know. I'd throw one one way and one the other to be safe. Since I'm the one doing it, I'll give my home-state the benefit of the doubt and throw Missouri back in with the no-go's. Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota? We'll say Indiana will go with us and Minnesota too. The rest ain't budging. North and South Dakota? We'll say South Dakota and say North Dakota stayed with the Feds. The rest of the west? Montana and Idaho still have enough individualists in them that they ain't missing out on this. Wyoming and Utah are solidly in our camp. Nevada, after some grueling votes down around Los Vegas will go our way. New Mexico has a lot of Dems but they are the last of the breed-conservative Democrats and they will vote to forsake the sinking Federal ship. Colorado is too full of Californians and people too invested in the Military-Industrial Complex to let go. They stay in with the Feds. Utah goes with us and so does Arizona after a struggle at the box. California, Oregon and Washington state are with the Feds. So is Hawaii. Alaska and its oil reserves, we get.

So ladies and gentlemen, the old USA now consists of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Delaware, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Washington, DC, Connecticut, Ohio, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, California, Washington, Oregon, Hawaii, Colorado and Florida.

The new country consists of Virginia, North and South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and Alaska.

Now Boggy, the old USA is not going to be able to stop imports due to the massive coastline down in the Gulf and on the eastern seaboard. There will be plenty of oil to run us because save for Colorado, the oil patch all voted to secede. We have our own nukes because there are some already here. The massive shipping industry in and around Newport News can handle our needs for a Navy if we get none of the old one. We have agriculture all over, but especially in the mid-south and Indiana. What's lacking?

Hank Williams Jr. for President anybody?

If this happened too, don't y'all think there would be a much bigger influx of "immigrants" from the old US into the new country than vice-versa? I think so. I know I would be packin' up if I were in the old country. Doesn't say much for real estate values there.

In my honest opinion this is an exercise in total futility. Even if your parameters are met (ie. no armed intervention) not a single state would vote to secede.

I say this because for at least three generations the American people have been acustomed, and increasingly so, to relying on bread and circuses provided by the federal government.

Second there is no overriding cause for secession as slavery was in the first go round. Yes, secession and the following war was about states rights but it was states rights grounded first and foremost in chattel slavery. We shall not beat that dead mule again.

If you believe that the concept of Honor is as firmly rooted in the american people today as it was in the 1860's or the 18th century then you have a better opinion than I do. When I look around I see very few that will hold a position based solely on personal honor and principle.

BCR

I just don't know...

I really don't.

Maybe Georgia, South Caroline if anybody would, Alabama, Mississippi and just maybe Tenn. If they really truly formed a league and stood up without backing down I think others would follow.

If not full secession then a real 10th ammendment with real teeth in it.

And Vermont might be the first to do it.

Then some of the cowboy states...

but I really truly don't know. I have found out that I truly don't have a pulse for this nation's thoughts or moods, ever since Klinton the first got re-elected for a second term. That stunned me... really truly stunned me.

I can't remember his name, but back in the 70's/early 80's there was an author who wrote a couple books on surviving a nuclear war on an individual basis. He chose the Western Slope as the area in the US as being the most survivable region.

He also had a bit of anti-government slant to his writings. He cose Colorado and Utah as being the "most likely" to secede. I don't think that is true today with Colorado--waaay to many suburban refugees.

But all you have to do is look how each state voted in the primarys to get an indication which states are the most unhappy with the status quo.


Casey

I think that Boggy is right. Ain't none of them leaving Uncle Sugar. miles

BCR,

Sad.

I don't get it.

Folks don't seem to get mad over the right issues any more...

Ethan,

As long as we are suspending belief, and wearing tin foil, how will you account for the Black Citizen. If half the voters, say in South Carolina, are Black, unless you deny them the right to participate in the secession decision, SC won't be going along for the ride.
Same with La, Ms, Alabama. In Texas, and other states, you have the Hispanic vote. Blacks and Hispanics are heavily dependent on current handouts and policy.
How are you going to do this with White folks only voting? Boy that sounds like disenfranchisement and (gasp)......slavery.

Sam

The states with the most folk wearing aluminum hats.

1B

None would want to secede.

If a single state wanted to secede in the 21st Century, it would so vote in a state-wide referendum. the governor would then tell the federal government, who would ignore it. The governor would then disobey some minor federal law, non-violently, and the federal government would issue a fine and/or arrest warrant. This would allow the governor to appeal to the US Supreme court.

For the first time ever, a US Court would decide whether or not secession was legal. There has never been any ruling on it. If South Carolina had followed this approach in 1861, instead of stupidly firing cannons at federal soldiers, they might have gotten what they wanted.

Legal secession might not be as bad as many fear. For instance, my employees are allowed to quit their jobs. This means I have to treat them well. Pay and benefits. I pay the best ones more than the others. Some who leave come back later. I am allowed to fire the bad ones. Etc. But we all work together, as in any corporation, for the good of the corporation's objectives. If they were "slaves," they would be treated poorly, they would probably act lazy and indolent, and I could probably not get rid of the bad ones. They--and--I would be worse off. So it might be with the states, which are "slaves" in the sense that they are not allowed to "quit" the union.

Legal secession might, in short, not only strengthen the federal union, but also create a truer democracy. States would obviously be freer to experiment with different forms of welfare, social security, job creation, and the like. The current system seems more and more a democracy in which we are allowed to vote on how to arrange the deck chairs but have no voice on whether or not the Titanic is sinking.

Note that such a system would have nothing to do with the issues of the US Civil War or with North vs. South.

Probably just the really, really stupid ones.

Not naming any names.

If this ever happens in our life time I feel it will start in one of three places; Vermont has been rattling the saber for years now; the people in Northern California have been yelling very loudly about them getting away from all the stupidity in the southern part of the state; and lastly that part of Louisiana that is already being called Arcadia, the Cajun stronghold by these people who live there. They want to get away from all the stupid things going on in New Orleans and Baton Rough. That is my take on this that it will start on a state division movement that may then grow into the attempt at forming a new nation within our current borders. I doubt that I'll ever see it or my children, maybe my grandkids.

I'm surprised you put Vermont in the union. There's been a successionist movement there for quite some time.

I'm mildly amused by all of you southern boys still complaining about the outcome of a war that was fought nearly 150 years ago.

If you Rebs want to get out from under the shackles of the federal government that you find so onerous, why don't you go down and take over South America? Fortuitously, the entire continent has already been named after your new country.

Been tried before in Central America.

I think all it will take is some economic upheaval. If the Feds suddenly couldn't keep the payments coming to some of the protected classes, all hail would break loose.

Steve, if it happens you can always move to Massachusettes. We will let you through the lines. Just ask for me and I'll make sure you get through with everything you can haul in your 'burban and a U-Haul.

lol

I'd be all for making NYC a state of it's own.

Way too many on the federal tit down here in Mississippi to vote for secession. It aint just the poor. It starts at the Govs office and rolls downhill.

Cept for the oyster bar at Grand Central!

I think what you're likely to see in the not too distant future is the sucession of the Southwest by osmosis.

Mexico will just keep on overflowing into it until it just drifts apart from U.S. influence.

It's well on it's way now.

i agree. it's happening before our very eyes.

also, with the exception of the big cities, i can easily forecast michigan, wisconsin and minnesota to choose to side with the core constituencies.