Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Leupold German #4 reticle or Post and Duplex?

Thinking of changing the scope on a 30-06 for use in the deep, dark post oaks of central Texas. I hunted this area a few years ago and at last light a deer standing at the edge of the trees was not only hard to see but, the old duplex reticle just about disappeared.
So, which would be the better of the two, or would you recommend a different reticle?

I like the German #4.

Thought this might help...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...&topic=0&Search=true#Post1573592

I don't know how dark it gets in TX, but under conifers, the Lupy German 4 always shows up.

Has thicker crosshairs than other #4 reticles...so you don't lose them like you may on a Zeiss or Swaro in extremely low light.

I have--but generally #4 posts provide "guidance" in those dark moments--enough that you can make a pretty good shot regardless. And if the light is that low, you aren't making long shots anyway.

Thicker crosshairs ain't my favorite for shooting paper...

First, you need to understand that heavier reticles don't do much good if the scopes they are in aren't well focused. See my post on this.
What magnification and size scope are you using ? Where is the magnification set during low light ? Many people think the brighter the image, the better. No. The higher the magnification, the better. The image looks dimmer but the scope will show you more detail when set at it's highest possible magnification during low light conditions.
Unfortunately, the higher the magnification, the harder it is to see the reticle. Either the Post & Duplex or the Leupold's 4a will go a long way to allow you to see the reticle better during low light. They also seem to make the eye pick up the reticle faster in good light as well. One of the options I recommend and use myself, if anything, for that alone. E

The Leupold #4 has the center between the posts wider than the Leupold post & duplex. I would perfer the post & duplex. My son has the post & duplex in his vx3 2.5x8 and it's bolder than the standard duplex but not too thick.

E,
Sorry for the delay but, I had to leave shortly after posting the question.
I was planning to get a VXII 3-9x40 with the #4 or a FXII 6x36 with a #4 or the post & duplex. I currently have two FXII 6x36 scopes and on my VXIIs if I'm in the stand they are usually set on 6 power. It would be used mostly for stand hunting so weight is not a factor.
The post & duplex looks like it may be a fairly good compromise but, I have not had the pleasure of actually looking through a scope with either of these reticles.

Thanks for the link. That #4 looks pretty good. In looking at the Leupold catalog the thick part of the posts look so much wider than the duplex or post & duplex that I was concerned. Looked at the substention chart but, could not find the info for the post & duplex. And of course it always helps to actually see one. Wish I could find a store that stocked the different reticles so I could see for myself but, your pictures help.
How about running out and buying one with a post & duplex and then posting a picture of it?

Illuminated nr 4.

Here's a Leupold Post & Duplex...



and the Leupold No. 4 for reference....

I like the reticle in the bottom photo best.

Dang clark98ut, you are one FAST shopper! Did you buy that just for me?

Serioulsy, thanks for the pics. I think you helped me make up my mind to go with the #4. It just looks to me like it would be more effective in those last few seconds of light. Besides it's German and mine papa was born in Stuttgart. Now that's logic even the wife can understand. How can she complain about "another new scope" when there is "heritage" and family involved?

No problem on the pics, glad I could help.

The picture of the post and duplex reticle isn't the best, but to me, it was close to a standard duplex, just with a fine top post. Unfortunately, the No. 4 has been sitting in my closet waiting for a rifle for almost a year now. I bought that scope to go on my 338 Federal that was supposed to be done before deer season and I'm still waiting on it.

-Dan

Gents--for the sake of clarification--albeit a bit anal retentive.

There is a good deal of difference among #4 reticles...and the photos don't appear to make that clear--to me anyway.

For instance: Swaro and Zeiss have fine crosshairs whereas Lupy has thicker crosshairs--akin to those in the Lupy heavy duplex. Lupy and Zeiss have considerably thicker posts than Swaro.

There is a huge difference between Swaro's 4a and Lupy's German 4.

IIRC, as told by a Lupy rep, the post and duplex has the same dimensions as the standard duplex except for the top post is fine

I use the three above...and in our podunk style tests, the Lupy German 4 is the ultimate for extreme low light--sub 100 yards shots, say.

That said, I prefer the Zeiss reticle. That said, the lowest light whitetail I ever shot was with a Swaro 4a in Canuckville. I didn't have a watch on...my brother-in-law was headed back to the boat with a flashlight when he heard the shot...

Just to clarify, all the reticles above are Leupold reticles.

OK. I have the Premier Reticles version of the 4a. The Leupold version is twice as heavy in the heavy section, but roughly the same in the rest of the specs. Like mine alot. I suspect I'd like the Leupold version too. That's in a 6X42
I've got the Post & Duplex in my old 4X. Like it too. Both seem faster in daylight and work much better when it gets really dark. That would be well after legal shooting hours in the 6X42. For the legal shooting hours of twilight, I find the Medium Duplex will work, but it's noticably harder to see.
So, it's a toss up in my book. the 4a is prefered by those that want a finer thin wire, while the P&D for those that prefer not so heavy an outer post. E

The Post & Duplex is roughly a Heavy Duplex with the top post not present. 2.1 vs. 2.7 for the heavy sections and 1.0 for the thin sections. These are for a 6X. The openings are 13.2 (P&D) vs. 14.5 (HD).
The thin wire on the Leupold 4a is a touch heavier than the Medium Duplex, .7 vs. .4. The heavy sections are much heavier, 6.0 vs. 1.2. And the opening on the 4a is much wider, 25.2 vs. 9 inches. Again, all of these are for a 6X, either the 6X42 or the 6X36. E

Guys, I misspoke above. The reticle I posted a picture of is a No. 4, NOT a 4a.

E:

For the sake of less confusion here, Lupy calls their version a "German 4" for whatever reason.

The Premier 4a looks about identical to Swaro's 4a to me.

Premier's #4 has/had a smaller crosshair area than their 4a. In other words, the horizontal heavy posts are slightly longer on the 4 than the 4a. Neat reticle for range guessing.

I hope I don't have those backward. From memory is risky...

Interesting, on the 6x P&D...will have to look at the reticle specs for the post and duplex. I asked the rep about the 3-10x40 VXIII and he said the post thickness were the same as the ones on the standard (medium) duplex.

I wouldn't mind a P&D at all on that 3-10, if the posts were the same size as the HD posts.

Are the crosshair wires on the P&D the same thickness as the crosshair wires on the Heavy Duplex or are they thiner like the ones on the medium duplex?

Want to see an original German post and crosshair?





My dad brought this scope home from Germany after WW2. He had the whole sniper rifle as new. He gave it to my grandpa who had it sporterized. I sure wish he hadn't done that. The cross hairs are very thick. The horizontal cross hair moves down as you rotate the knob on the side to higher meter setting.