Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics ? for the fixed 6X shooters.

This sums it up very well.

Hey, my 6x36 allowed me to thread 130 grains of ballistic tip from a mountain rifle years back thru an opening the size of a grapefruit. That said, my 6-24x on my 6br failed to let me see that the button buck had something on his head, and I thought it to be a doe, did a DRT only to find out all those x's still failed to show what I was looking for, no absolutes.

To your point, my 4x33 on a 7/08 did not see a sapling at 80 yds, on my first shot, but the little mulie buck turned to me and guess what I did on the second round? Right through the neck...still got my venison. A higher powered variable CAN give you options, but if I were in thick stuff, I'd be afraid of losing out on a shot, during what often is a very short time window before an animal is out of sight. QUALITY optics can offset lower power to some degree. My Balfor 4x32 allowed me to shoot 5 of 7 shot group from a Sako 243 in 1.25" at 200 yds, high resolution for my eyes. A 2.5 will as you elude fail to show brush in the line of sight, but a good 4-6x will get the job done more often that not. All personal preference. I have used both with success FWIW.

Forgot to add, the shot with 270 - whiteail was also about 80 yds, in very thick timber..... Mulie was in timber in Co. Rockies....

"I'm trying to get a feel as I have a pre-64 M-70 '06 that a fixed power scope just seems right for. Right now I'm leaning toward the 4X."

Felt the same way about my pre-64 300 H&H. Took off a new Burris 3-9X and replaced it with an older Leupold 4X. Am I better off shooting? Not for paper but can't see how it will hurt me in the field.

Don't shoot slick heads.........

I'm amazed at how many consider a 4X a "200-250 yard" scope.I know for certain I don't have special eyes and I routinely shoot with the things to 400 yards, which(lets face it),takes in the majority of big game animals killed continent-wide every year.I will string along with those that say apparent wobble causes dawdling,and you'll get more of it at 6X than 4X. Encouraging that the shooter get a better rest is always a pious idea, but sometimes not possible,and I have seen guys blow perfectly "makeable" shots because they obsessed over the "correct" power,or were using too many X's in the presence of game.Too many guys spend too much time struggling for 1/4" groups and playing with variables when they should spend the bulk of their practice time shooting off hand and from hunting positions, getting shots off accurately and quickly,etc.

I can understand the special needs of guys hunting from blinds over crop fields or clear cuts, etc,and understand how more scope is helpful, but I generally don't hunt that way.

If people practiced more field-position shooting, they'd most likely do as well with 6X as with 4X. But the notion that you will gut shoot a deer at 4X, but kill him clean at 6X is ridiculous.If you're a chump shot at 4X,going to 6X will not help you.

Here, here. A 4x is the best scope for out to 250 yards. It is perfectly adequate for anything out to 400 or a little better. Since most shots are within 250 yards, there is no need to handicap oneself with a scope of more power. Especially, when you consider that a 4x is plenty for longer shots.

Everybody on this board would say that at 100 yards, it is no trick to kill a deer with open sights. At 400 yards, a 4x makes a deer look like it is 100 yards distant.

As for the picking holes through the brush thing, it goes both ways. One day on the stand, I had been playing with a variable scope a little. I had loaned my binos to my nephew and hadn't gotten them back yet (imagine that). I was looking at a woodpecker through the 7x on the scope. I looked up and noticed a buck slipping through the brush. It was no problem getting on the deer. And I suppose the 7x would have been a big help picking a hole through the brush at 70 yards. However, it was totatlly worthless in spotting the single piece of privet hedge at 10. Take the scope from your eye and it was as clear as day. Look through the scope and the scope looked right through it and you couldn't see it.

Not sure about this reverse position. For hogs, deer and turkey, I can plainly see twigs or limbs in front of my target that my old eyes would never pick out without magnification.

Going to try my promised Nikon 6X on some pigs one moonlit night very soon.

stumpy

Stumpy, had that Nikon, good bright scope, the crosshair will be your limiting factor if it is, it is not heavy by any means but may, MAY, don't know fade in very dark light, but should do for most any 'legal light' opportunities.....moonlight....never tried. Bobin I agree, and long ago my bench shooting practice sessions made me too slow and overly critical in hunting situations and it was a detriment at times.....later got away from 'paper only/sandbag only' shooting. Practice as you hunt would be well served by many and I don't know how many hunters have benches with bags in their stands.....some do, but most have less stable platforms to hold/aim from I agree.

I think a good 22 with plinking time spent in the field offhand, or an airgun will help many. Equipment and skill for target and prairie dogs call for different needs for stated reasons that deer/big game.

65: +2!

All of this came about by me hunting, plinking jack rabbits - a typical shot is ~ 50 to 150 yards off hand after hiking around 1/4 mile plus in 4-8" of snow over rolling terrain. Not all that different from a typical mule deer hunt. For me, my hits have been more consistant on 4X than 6X - it just looks like I'm moving too much at 6X. I also have a 2X7 on my .17HMR and shoot it mostly on 2X - and sure enough the site picture is rock solid at 2X. Deer hunting, 3 of my last 6 bucks have been at under 60 yards while 2 were at a bit over 300 and 1 at a bit under 200. The 3 at under 60 were off hand on 3X, the one at 200 was from a sitting position at 3X, and the 2 over 300 were at 9X over my pack - all 1 shot kills except the deer at 200 which took 2 shots (both within 2" of each other though the lungs). Maybe the varible is best considering the variation in shot distances and circumstances. - Just think a fixed 4X 'feels right' on the old '06. Hmmm.

I cannot argue a variable for someone who hunts mixed terrain, esp. a one gun hunter who wants 'max' versatility, but a good low to mid range variable may be best for many hunters, as high end scopes I'd venture to say get cranked to max at anything but close shots, and higher x's can cause things to not go as planned. But I can say long ago I took a 3-9x Lupy off my 243 sporter and replaced it with an m8 6x36 and never felt underscoped, I used it for crows, coyotes and deer. Having discipline not to give in to the temptation of always maxing x's when having a variable will minimize that wobble effect, and the overconfidence a close 'view' gives to some shooters at the moment of squeeze, or a rushed 'jerk' on the trigger that pulls the muzzle off aim before the bullet is on it's way.

I notice many experienced shooters who use variables often are happy with 2-7, 2.5-8, and others that max at 9 or 10x, for me anything over 10 begs for an AO which is yet another time robber in the field prior to a shot on big game. On varmints it is not as 'risky' to lose an opportunity but a nice buck or elk....etc....

It may be that as more shooters spend time at the range, their 'target shooting' bears out, more x's equal smaller groups, but that kind of shooting is different than hunting game, and I love getting small groups believe me, but if you have yet to shoot a low fixed or do some shooting at low power, try it for those who have not. Put some milk jugs with water at 300-400 yds and/or shoot a 12" or so size gong at those distances and you might be surprised how well you CAN and DO hit on lower power. That lesser 'wobble' I believe minimizes shot cycle time, as stated above, one does not try 'over correcting' the wobble, leading to wasted time and increased fatigue that worsens ones aim/hold/shootability.

I've never been big on high powered scopes, but the real revelation came to me five or six years ago when I purchased a few surplus Mausers and 900 rounds of ammunition. I found it really easy, with just a bit of practice to get hits on man sized objects out past 300 yards. I have no doubt that with good iron sights, I could do the same on a deer. Therefore, if one can do it with iron sights, why does one need a scope set on 9x to do it at the same distance? You don't.

Scopes aren't absolutely necessary, just a little easier on some of us without perfect vision.
I noticed you said "hits" at 300 yards. I expect to hit the "vitals only" at that distance and in dim light with my scoped rifles.

stumpy

nothing wrong with the vx2 3x9 but I do like the 6x42 and it does appears to be more forgivinng. I have serveral fixed 6s and like them much. for 250 yards or more, I would prefer something up to 8x though.

Well, yeah, that is why you use a scope. The point is, a lot of people think anything less than 6x is useless for 300 yards. It isn't. With good sights, I can kill a deer at 300 yards with iron sights and I seriously doubt your eyes are worse than mine. I have 20-400 in my right and 20-450 in my left. Thank goodness it is correctable.

Exactly. I have abut the same kind of correctable vision, and have used iron sights to cleanly take big game (caribou) closer to 400 yards than 300.

Many people who state that X amount of magnification is "necessary" for various kinds of hunting have simply never tried anything else. I did a "guest" appearance on a radio talk-show about hunting some years back, and one guy insisted that he always turned up the 6-24x on his elk rifle for those "long" 300-yard shots.

Now, sometimes more magnification helps us to see the target better, even at close range in the woods. But lots of X's are NOT necessary for making vital hits on big game. I have used 6x scopes for many years on big game, either fixed or variables set on 6x, and almost never feel any need to turn them up or down, whether at 20 or 500 yards. Some people feel differently, but in general most hunters just follow "common wisdom," which isn't always wise.

One of the biggest problems I had when guiding hunters was guys fiddling with their magnification ring when they should have been shooting. One of these was a guy from Maine who missed out on a huge pronghorn because he was trying to turn his 4-12x up to 12x to take a 250-YARD SHOT. He didn't think 4x was enough!

Back in the day when I didn't know any better. I was an Army sniper and our weapon in those days was the M21, basicly a match M14 with the ART-2 scope. We did quite a bit of shooting and could hit pretty reliably (ist shot hits, on steel human shiloutes) out to 900 yds

For those folks unfamiliar with the Leatherwood ART-2 scope it was a 3-9 that comphensated trajectory from 300 to 900yds as the magnification changed. So basically a 300yd shot was at 3x and 600yds was at 6x etc.

We mostly shot those steel shilloutes as you could hear the impact and your spotter could watch the bullet fly and see exactly where is "splashed' in. But we also shot at targets of oppurtunity like ground squirrels, deer and hogs. There where some limitations to the system in terms of accuracy and of course the general balistic limiations of the 308, But I can never remember being at a disadvantage because of magnification. One of the comman ways to be destructive was to shoot the bolts that held the 300yd silloutes to their posts. 3x was plenty of magnification for that.

I like 6x for the hunting I do, pronghorn, open country deer, and especially still hunting in timber for elk. I don't shoot at the elk if they are running away but usually while they standing trying to figure out what I am. I have used fixed 4x, a mini 6 burris, various 3x9s, and a borrowed rifle with 6.5x20 (and shot a cow elk at 300 yds, offhand braced against a tree with it, and the scope was set at 10x) and most recently a VX-II 2x7 that I always kept at 6X on my primary rifle. I find with 6x I can see details like which way the hair is growing to let me know exactly what part I am looking at and which angle an elk is standing at and if there is an un-obstructed path for a bullet to the vitals. The last elk, in 2006, I shot was at 25 yard. So in summary, I have taken game with 4x to 10x from 25 to 300+ yards and I like 6 the best. Do you need any other scope than a VX II 3x9? Certainly not, but it is fun to play shooting accessories and anything that gets you out busting caps is going to make you a better hunter. I just bought 2 different 6x scopes to see what I like best but I sure didn't need them.