Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Advice on first double rifle

For a hunting rifle I'd opt for the Searcy. Buy a good used one if you can find one or give me a call and I bet I can find one for you...

If you want a collector thats usable then look for a nice 450-400 in an English rifle, but they are very hard to come by right now as HOrnady started making loaded ammo and brass for them and they have all but disapeared off the streets..I have been looking for a good one for a friend at all the SCI shows and nothing good has surfaced so far.

Why do you say to avoid Chapuis in a heavy rifle? Just curious because a friend of mine just bought one in 470 NE at the SCI Convention.

They look nice but have a reputation for not holding up to heavy recoil. About a year ago a fellow posted here or in big bore that he had just bought one for a safari and was going out to test it. I didn't say anything much as he was real excited, so I wished him well.

Next day he was back on saying that the stock had split. I forget whether it was the tang or wrist, but neither would be a surprise. He wound up taking another rifle as his heavy.

They are nice looking and I wish your friend well.

I must agrree with all of the above.

I like the 450-400-3", .470 and recently the 450 no. 2 as Hornady and other companies make ammo, bullets, and brass for them..

I prefer the Searcy Classic in a modern double..The Searcys are simply more accurate than most doubles..The 3 that I have owned have all shot 1.5 inches or better on average of 10 groups and the one I have now will shoot an honest inch..

In English/European rifles, a good Jefferys, Army/Navy, Francotte, and a host of others are good guns if in proper condition..

I would always want to shoot one of the older guns, slug BOTH bores and have it checked out by a knowledgable double gun smithy....

"like the 450-400-3", .470 and recently the 450 no. 2 as Hornady and other companies make ammo, bullets, and brass for them.."

Actually, Hornaday will be making brass, and loading, the 450NE 3 1/4" and not the 450NE No2. 480 grains at 2150fps out of 28" barrles is the old Kynoch standard for this cartridge.

JPK

I saw a video several years ago where the hunter was using a Heym in 500 NE. It was regulated to shoot a 600 gr. bullet and it went in one side of the skull and came out the other. I always thought that would be a cool gun.

A 450NE will do that from front or side. A 450/400 will do it too but maybe not always from the front. Even a 375H&H, know for penetration will do it front or side, as will a 458wm. The big bore doubles, ie 450NE and more drop an ele, or at least turn one with a less than perfect shot. And none of us is perfect, every day all day, so this is where the utility lies. And the very quick second shot...

Forum contributor 500 Grains hunts elephants with a 500NE and report really excellent results, as you would expect!

JPK

What do you think of the Krieghoff double rifle? I have some friends who use their shotguns for compitition shooting and they swear by them. I toured the Krieghoff factory in Germany in October of 2006 while on a business trip and they have some amazing guns and there attention to detail and quality seems to be second to none.

TVan,

Many find the Krieghoff cocking/decocking/safety an awkward, slow and difficult system to use, others do not. I am one of those who do, but I'm also sure that if I chose to try, I could become 100% familiar and comfortable with the system. But since I own and shoot a bunch of SxS double rifles and shotguns with the more traditional safety I have chosen to stick with that.

One PH I hunt with in Zimbabwe swears by his Krieghoff 470, and he has needed to use it to save his or his clients' lives more than once. I think that this is the ultimate testimony.

A short and telling story on this: He recently was married and he and his bride were looking to see what they could do to come up with $'s to buy a home. She wanted him to sell the double and since he has a 458 Lott bolt rifle he considered the option of using the Lott. But he and his clients were charged by an elephant cow in Chewore, after doing all that they could to retreat to avoid a problem. He stopped the cow at 5yds. He thought about it and came to the conclusion that he wasn't sure he could have done as well with the bolt 458 Lott, which is the more powerful rifle. After telling his wife of the incident, she insisted that he keep the Kreighoff! Good wife!

I've handled and shot his 470 and it is pretty nice, though I prefer my own big bore double, which is a Marcel Thys, and I ought to, first because it is mine and second because it is a sidelock that would cost 5x times what a Keighoff cost. The difference isn't in the utility though, only in the details. His rifle and mine weigh about the same and are both in the right weight range for the carrying/handling/recoil compromise. I think mine handles better but the difference in handling between those two rifles wasn't significant, the Kreighoff handles well.
Hope this helps,

JPK

Very interesting story, I once shot a Bull Moose in Ontario that charged me, it too was very close in thick cover.
I believe that the Krieghoff safety is a little harder for some because when you push the safety you are actually cocking the firing pins and they do it this way for an added measure of safety. Still it is a little harder. I handled one in there conference room and noticed this and this was the explanation I got.

I could never get the hang of it (granted I only tried for a day or two but found it really awkward). Blaser is somewhat similar. I went with the more traditional Heym instead.

I understand, still wish I had one. Maybe next purchase I will have to consider it.

Shakari, I wonder if the name 'Trigger' means anything to you at all?!

I know him well and had the pleasure of hunting with him last year. - He's a real diamond...... where do you know him from?

I've known him for quite a few years- we're in the same business... He didn't shoot that elephant with you did he?

No, not that one. I had an e-mail from him yesterday and he tells me he's going back to W/R..... actually started back there today. - Damn, but he's one of the funniest men I've ever met. To say nothing of the most knowledgeable on doubles.

How did you know that I knew him?

I thought he might have headed back that way- good for him. They've got a hell of a lot of steam up at the mo...

He certainly calls a spade a spade!

I had a hunch when you mentioned knowing one of the maker's works managers, and also the story about the geordie (one of his chums.)

Yup, it was Martin who came along with him. He (Martin) was shooting a Joseph Lang 450/400 that he shot really well...... He took a great Buff at about 15 yards and another one with a longer shot. - I've gotta say, that safari was the most enjoyable of the year by far. I can't remember laughing so much for a looong time.

As for W/R, I reckon he's made a great move, and I'm sure he'll be very happy there.

As you say, Trigger calls a spade a spade - or actually a fu***ng spade, but not a horticultural earth inverting impliment!

I'm not sure if this'll get posted as we're having internet connection problems here at the moment.

Email sent shakari, and sorry for the hijack Joel!

If you decide on the proper (ahem!) double route, let me know if you want an eye on the British market...