Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing 93 Mauser in .308

Please Help!!!
Here's the problem , a year or two ago I got ahold of a 93 mauser chambered in .308 winchester it is in fairley good shape the problem is that I,ve had it in to the gunsmith and he says don't shoot it because it cannot handle th pressure of the .308 cartridge.Now normally this would be enough to make me stop but this gunsmith has a questionable reputation so I brought the gun to a different gunsmith to ask his opinion , his reply was that it was good strong steel and to shoot it all I want just don't use hot handloads. so now I'm in a bind do I shoot it or not . I have shot it before without incident but now I'm leary to do so again. I really like this gun it's old and ugly but it just feels right when i hold it . So any info or opinions would be welcome .

Thanks
boondock

Here is the deal on the Spanish M93 converted to .308 CETME. Originaly they were chambered for 7m/m mauser. Both those made in Germany and those made in Spain. The German manufactured ones were/are much better quality in both steel used and manufacturing methods. When NATO settled on the .308 as the standard round the Spanish govt. rechambered many of their old short rilfes to that caliber. However they used a special load (CETME) that produced much lower pressure than the standard NATO cartridge. You can not tell them apart by looking. Subsequently many of these guns were given to the Guardia Civil (police) for use. Now they are here in quantity and have been for some time. Some of them have feeding problems due to the conversion some don't. In anycase they are not made to handle the pressure of the standard 308 round as a steady diet though they will chamber and fire the round just fine.
So to attempt an answer to your question. Can you shoot it, sure. Should you, that is not good, IMO. Your particlar rifle may well shoot the 308 from now on with not a hint of a problem. OTOH it my let go the next time you squeeze the trigger and M93's don't handle escaping gas and brass shards well. Only you can say how much risk you are willing to take. Personally I would not fire one with either new factory or surplus 308 due to that uncertainty. If I wanted to shoot it I would handload for it using only mild loads.


BCR

Very unsafe. Sounds like the first 'smith knew what he was talking about. There is a reason why the 7x57 and 6.5x55 are held to lower pressures. Sean

Hey guys thanks for the info .Now that I know NOT to shoot factory loads in this gun it leaves me with two options either retire the gun or handload for it. I have a very basic knowledge of handloading and after some internet research I found a load that I think might work .
It consistes of 60 grains of Hogdon I4831 behind a 180 grain bullet they say that the CUP should be around 44,300. Do you think that this is a safe pressure for this gun, Also what is the usual pressure for this action using the 6.5x55 or the 7x55

boondock

That should be an ok load. IIRC the CETME 308 round is supposed to have a working pressure of 45K.

BCR

May want to double check about 60 grains?? Their web site doesn't list that usage, but that seems to be a lot of powder.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/basic1997.htm

Some years ago, I toyed with the idea of sporterizing one of these '93 Mausers in .308 caliber for a friend. I happened to run across an article in the American Rifleman in which Finn Aagard warned against shooting the Spanish .308 Mausers because of pressure problems. Needless to say, I dropped the sporterizing idea.

Check out, SAMCO GLOBAL ARMS, website. They import these rifles. If you check out the article from the website, they had these rifles tested to destruction by an independent lab. Failures were only experienced >98,000 psi.



The lab is named, so I think they probably are legit, the liability issues being what they are today.



I just spent several hours shooting one of these that my brother picked up at a gunshow. We shot several different commercial loads of 150 gr. and 165 grain ammo, while sighting the scope I mounted for him. Headspace is the same before and after, I checked myself.



These rifles were made as late as 1911, as this one is marked that year. This rifle also had a "gas vent" added when it was rebarreled, this port is right behind the boltface.



I was impressed by both the machining and bolt function of this rifle.



BTW, I didn't "bubba" this rifle, it was already in a Boyd's walnut stock and the barrel had been cut back to 20".

Years ago P.O. Ackley also claimed that the 93/95 Mauser was strong enough for the .308 Win. He also made a lot of other claims that turned out to be somewhat suspect as the years have gone by. While I've also seen reference to the lab testing, I've never seen the actual data myself. I've got to wonder how many rifles they tested. With the .308 loaded to 62,000 psi and destruction occuring at 98,000 psi it would seem that there is some margin of safety but you also have to take into consideration the metalurgy of the period. 98 actions are too available and inexpensive these days to for me to take a chance on something that maybe prone to failure that close to my mellon.

This question raises it's head every so often.

I think the action, as stated earlier, is probably safe against self destruction. You'll probably get bolt setback and excess headspace first. The 6.5x55, 7mm, the 7.65x53 and the original 8mm were all 45,000 CUP cartridges. The .308 Win. is a 52,000 CUP round.

Hell, old 'Load 'em up till they squeak' P.O. Ackley even recommended converting the '91 Argentine to .308.

I can't abide by either recomendation. I have one of the aforementioned converted rifles, and have handload for it exclusively, keeping it down to the 45,000 CUP mark.

I think that the real clinker is not in action itself, but how it was converted to .308. Some rifles were rebored and and rechambered. Some had the barrel drilled and a .30 cal liner soldered in. The chamber recut with the mouth of the case at the joint line of the liner. You now have a pretty good flame cutter when those hot cartridges gasses are sent down the pipe. I have seen some pictures about 3 years ago on a website of some of the barrels that had been cross sectioned. They didn't look too good. And yes, there were reports of some of the barrels having 'catastrophic failures'.

I dunno, why court disaster? Mine, altho not one of lined barrels, sets in the safe. haven't shot it in 7 yrs.

Each of us has to make up his own mind.

I've seen several 93/95s that were converted to .300 Savage. Its a much more sensible conversion since the .300 Savage chamber pressure is in the same ballpark, 44-46,000 CUP/52,000 PSI, as the original calibers. In practical terms, anything you shoot with a .300 Savage vs a .308 Win won't know the difference. You loose about 150 fps or so but if you can live with a barrel that's a few inches longer you gain most of it back.