Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Varathane 66 availability

I'm always ready to try something new in gunstock refinishing but I can't seem to find a source for this magic potion that does everything but the dishes.

Somebody tell me where to order or tag me up a website?

Thanks

Wayne

Wayne
It is very hard to find... shelf life is fairly short and many retailers do not like that idea...

A substitute can be made from 1 part Watco oil, 1 part spar varnish and 1 part paint thinner. Mix the oil and varnish first and then add thinner until it is quite watery, but no more than 1 part. Some varnishes are thicker than others, that is why the inexactitude.
art

After Sitka Deer gave me the tip about Varathane 66, I looked all over Des Moines, and couldn't find it. I didn't even see it cataloged.

I'm curious though, it that the same or similar to a finish that was popular some years ago, Flecto Plastic Oil and Sealer?

Paul

Thanks, Sitka.

The only way they sell spar varnish around this neck of the woods is by the gallon. You think 3 gallons of mix ought to be enough to touch up a finish or two?

I'll order up some Watco and a 1/2 pint of spar varnish from Midway, mix with some odorless thinner I have and try it on one of the many gunstocks laying around my shop that someone unnamed has Bubbaed up.

If that subsitute works as good as Varathane 66 is hyped up, you should put your name on a patent.

Thanks,

Wayne

Paul
Flecto plastic oil and sealer is different stuff, thicker and more like typical Varathane.
art

Wayne
Hardly patentable... besides Rudy Osolnik, a woodturner and teacher from KY, now deceased, showed me that trick quite a few years ago. He had a plant mix him up the stuff by the 55 gallon drum and he bottled it in plastic jugs and sold it to his students and anybody else that wanted some.

Makes for a pretty decent finish...
art

Sitka,

So the stuff must have a better life, after opening, than the Varathane 66? Found the Watco Neutral Danish Oil, but the clerks around here have never heard of varnish or shellac.

Oh, well.

Wayne

It does last quite a bit longer than 66... Spar varnish is a general class of finishes and should be at every hardware store.

Why would that not surprise me? I'll bet they are pretty young too, or maybe I'm just old.

I can't tell you how many times I've gone into a store to buy something I think is common (or used to be), and they not only don't have it but the clerks never even heard of it. Woodworking/finishing products are a good example.

It may be because so few of the electronic generation have jobs or hobbies that develop handworking skills and knowledge. They just don't learn how to make or fix things, and just don't care.

Paul

Paul, amen to that. And IMHO that's part of what's wrong with today's young folks.

Wayne

Phooey and begora!! Varathane 66 is the same as unicorn tears. It will cure anything known to man but the problem is finding some. Guess I'll stick to true oil.

Wayne

You might try Al Gore's tears. Supposed to do wonders for the environment!

Not to make too big a point...but todays youth were raised in todays world...and todays world is a throw away world...very few "things" can be fixed...they aren't made to be fixed, they were made to last a period of time then be replaced with "newer and better"...that is to keep the economy going and line someone fatcats pockets at the expense of the great unwashed masses. I don't think todays youth are in anyway wrong because THEIR PARENTS MADE THE WORLD THEY LIVE IN...so if you want to blame todays youth for something, then you better put the blame right square on the shoulders of their elders for making "today's youths" world what it is...and for the elders making laws eliminating many of the products that you and I used..."in the old days" all in the name of "saving the Environment".

It doesn't take but a few moments on the TV to learn about what the greater part of humanity has done to our home and what is about to happen. Maybe if the elders had kept their peckers in their pockets and stopped having so many kids the world wouldn't be in such a mess...so don't blame the youth...they INHERITED the pile of krap they are living in from the garbage their parents piled up because they followed some religious dogma, wouldn't use contraceptive devices and thought they were "MEN" and didn't use their brains...ALL religious and male dominated societies all around the world!!!

This is MHO after watching the world go around for 65 plus years and living all over the world and in all of the states west of the Big Muddy and working at everything from grunt laborer to middle management in several large companies and back down the ladder again.

If we cant' stop pointing fingers, blaming "the other guy" and start cooperating in cleaning up this mess Mother Nature will do it for us, and if she does it she might decide that anything that walks on two legs doesn't deserve such bounty and gives it back to the things that walk on 4 to 8 legs.

'Njoy

That's probably your problem. Too much TV and not enough original thought. Try a bit of actual fact finding on your own. Read a little. Go to a library and actually use your mind. Quit regurgitating what some talking head keeps repeating on TV. Try to remember that TV was invented for entertainment, not historical accuracy. 90 percent of what's on TV is fiction and the other 10 percent isn't worth watching. My dog knows better than to believe TV. If it doesn't smell like a dog then it isn't a dog. Bet you thought that "Fahrenheit 911" and "Bowling for Columbine" were documentarys. But I digress. Thanks for the DIY Varathane 66 recipe Art!

Art, which Watco oil are you referring to?

Paul

Remember Sitka, there are all kinds of Spar Varnishes these days. There is the regular Spar Varnish, there is Polyurethane Spar Varnish, etc, etc, the latest stuff on the shelves is often Spar Urethane--but it's allegedly good stuff.


Casey

Looks like Rust-Oleum owns the Varathane brand now--and I don't see Varathane 66....

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGBrand.asp?bid=12




Casey

That's my impression too, thus my interest in Sitka Deer's home made substitute.

Paul

If you haven't tried Minwax Wipe-On Poly you are missing an easy and tough finish. Because it is very thin, and is wiped on with a rag, you avoid all the usual bubbles, sags and runs that brush-on poly gives you. All that is necessary is to wipe on a coat, let it dry thoroughly, and give it a rub-down with 0000 steel wool. When you like the results, stop. You're finished.

Thanks. I'm familiar with polys, but prefer to use an oil type finish in this case.

Paul

Paul
The ordinary "Danish Oil Finish" is the one I use. It is the most stable finish blend I have found and very thin.

Casey
If I meant spar urethane I would have said spar urethane! Actually there is little new under the sun in finish technology. They just try to blend the cheapest, most easily-applied formula they can get away with...

I doubt you could find true old-time spar varnish these days... Despite can labels... Urethane is the resin of choice in almost all of them. If the spar varnish is too thick a little extra Watco will thin it to a more reasonable oil/resin ratio.

You want the mixture pretty thin. Apply heavy, allow to dry for 10-15 minutes and rub completely dry with a clean cloth.
art

BTW "Oil finish" is a mixture of oil, resins, thinners and waxes and we hope in that order. All oil finishes are made of about the same stuff and differences between them are usually minor. 66 earned a little different place because it does fine work so well...

As another general note... Thompson's Water Sealer is the most over-priced, useless crap made. To replicate it take any botched blend or end of run slurry and thin mightily with cheap solvents... Advertise like crazy and win the challenge set out in every business school in the World... And this is an important thing to remember about all businesses...

Businesses win or lose based not on what they do with the good stuff the make, but rather what they do with the junk. Lumber mills can sell all the firsts&seconds grade lumber automatically. It is how they do on their #4 common lumber that determines how they do at the bank.

Cotton gins always made their money on the cottonseed, not the cotton.

Thompson's is doing well pimping their junk as an outdoor sealer because that is all it is good for...

Thanks again, Art. You have provided valuable info, and your observation about the profit in selling crap is right on the mark.

Paul

OK, I found the ingredients for Art's home brewed Varathane 66 equivalent. I got lucky and found the spar varnish in pint cans.

Another question: How long should it dry between coats during build up?

Paul

Spot on Art, the woodworking forum I frequent shuns Thompsons unmercifully.

Art, since you didn't say spar urethane you must have meant the old fashioned spar varnish. But as you suggest, it is not easily found and may not even exist any longer. So, can you put a brand or source on it?

I have been looking lately and I cannot find a can that does not say urethane somewhere - often in very very small print. Unless it is one of the old stock cans way on the back of an old dusty shelf that says nothing at all.

I have use spar urethane and it seems to work in a recipe that is very similar to your's but uses turpentine and linseed oil.

Last, what is your opinion on Permalyn (esp sealer)?

Brent

Brent,

The can says Old Masters oil-based exterior finish Spar-Marine Varnish. One pint can.

Don't see urethane on it. Does mention some tung oil.

Diamond-Vogel paint store. Got it this morning.

I'd be willing to share if you have a container.

Paul

Paul
It will usually dry very fast and the coats are so thin the next can be applied pretty fast. After the last coat all oil finishes should sit for several weeks to fully cure before buffing out.

It is almost 100% there is urethane resin in it...
art

Brent
Urethane is probably in every readily available spar varnish made, but I do not consider that a bad thing. It does its job well.

Permalyn was a big disappointment in waterproof testing. It is oil-based and essentially the same thing as 66 or any other oil-varnish blend. None are very good at keeping moisture out. I found it a lot less user-friendly than a number of other mixtures I have played with.

To make sure no one things I am advocating this blend as a complete finish... or 66, or any other... I use this on top of an epoxy seal coat.
art

We're getting a great education here. Couple of questions please Art: Is your mix that slow in drying that you can wipe it off after 10 mins or so? Seems it would be getting gummy by that time. What kind of cloth do you use to keep lint out of the application. Also, do you have a favorite brand of epoxy coat and is it used straight out of the container? DonW

Art, you are the only person I have ever heard complain about Permalyn's water resistant qualities. Have you read Hughes double gun book, or his articles on stock finishing?

I have used it on a black walnut muzzleloader that is used hard in all conditions and the stuff seems to be pretty darn near bullet proof to me.

Of course, it's not epoxy, and I would not claim it to be as waterproof as that but I sure like it a whole lot more and it is way easier to apply than what is seems epoxy must be. That stuff sounds seriously difficult to work with.

Brent

Dons1
Yes it is pretty slow drying at that point. If it starts giving me problems that way I rewet with finish and rub faster and harder. If it is getting gummy I will toss it and mix a new batch.

I am not terribly fussy about the cloth because the finish is usually not very "grabby" when rubbing. Old sheets of reasonable quality are good enough, though flannel is not.

I have posted my method for the epoxy coat here many times and the full run-down can be found in the archives. But basically I heat the stock in an oven until it is almost too hot to handle and apply slow-set epoxy (very important) to the hot stock. The cooling wood will suck the epoxy in deeply.

After cleaning up the seal coat I usually apply an oil finish.

Brent
Meant to mention I do not like adding turpentine or other solvents to oils. Varnish is a blend with solvents to make it apply easily. When it starts to go bad (polymerize prematurely) it thickens, as does oil. When the mix is too thick I start questioning the integrity of my finish and that always leaves me cold.

The other problem I have is using BLO out of the hardware store can... It is not handled as carefully as "better" branded finishes and has caused me grief too many times with erratic thickening and slowed drying and such. watco and others add some waxes and resins and thin with solvents, also, but I have not had problems with them the way BLO has so many times.
art

Brent
Missed your last post until just now...

I have read SDH and many others that love the stuff. Remember, my need for waterproof is perhaps irrational. There is no comparison between epoxy and Permalyn or any other oil-based finish. Oil starts out at an extreme disadvantage.

Few are as concerned and likely fewer have a real need to be so... I have never claimed my finish is the only acceptable way. I only state that two finishes are truly waterproof, epoxy and CA. I would be a fool to even think to myself that Permalyn does not make an incredible finish for most of what a finish must do. On top of epoxy it is a great looking finish with no water problems. By itself it is a great looking finish that is only modestly waterproof. Without checking notes I believe it is neck and neck with 66 in that regard... Which is way ahead of most other oils.

Because I have done it the epoxy does not worry me and it is harder to apply, but not that much.
art

I must be missing something obvious. What is BLO?

Paul

BLO = Boiled Linseed Oil (I think)....

Sorry, thought it was common enough term to abbreviate...

When mixing up "oil" finishes I always use Epifanes Spar Varnish. It's very high in solids and is the gold-standard in the boating industry. The downside is that it is horribly expensive, but since we use it exclusively in our boat shop I have ready access to it.

We, too, use the oven pre-heat method when applying a base coat of epoxy before varnishing. Our preferred epoxy for that is West System's Tropical, or West System's 207 (which is formulated for that application). Be aware though that one runs the risk of getting bubbles in the epoxy as it "gasses" out during the curing process. A wash with alcohol afterward is also in order to remove the amine blush which will foul subsequent finishes or unduly clog sandpaper.

Higher grades of varnish cost more because they have the higher solids cut... in theory at least.

I have not used the West System Tropical, though the company engineers told me repeatedly it was the exact right stuff. I could not find it locally and gave up.

Because I do not try to build a surface layer of epoxy I have not been troubled by bubbles much at all.
art

"I have posted my method for the epoxy coat here many times and the full run-down can be found in the archives. But basically I heat the stock in an oven until it is almost too hot to handle and apply slow-set epoxy (very important) to the hot stock. The cooling wood will suck the epoxy in deeply."

Sitka Deer:

Will you post a link? I looked, but I can't find it.

I tried the two links, and went to the Lee Valley site.

Do you mean that for epoxy that you use epoxy glue? I thought it might be some type of epoxy based wood finish.

Could you post a link to how to apply the epoxy finish?

I'm not Sitka Deer, but the answer to your first question is "Yes". I like the S-1. The S-2 smells nasty.

The links to the discussion of his process are in like2shoot's post just before yours.

Paul

I have not used the S-1 and S-2 blends, but the G-1 and G-2 are my standards these days.

Sorry, brain fartt on my part

I meant G-1 and G-2

Paul

They do make an S-1 and S-2...

FIRST TRY REPORT

As this thread is running, I have a couple of finishing projects in the works. One is a stock that I am refinishing. Although completely stripped, I followed Art's advice and did not use epoxy for a base on a refinish job. I've just been filling the grain with successive coats of Tru-Oil, and it looks like a typical example of such - getting very shiny as the finish builds up. After I sand it back to level the pores, I shall rethink what final finish to use. It'll probably be Art's home brew because:

At the same time, I have been finishing a Schuetzen palm rest that Brent made for me. Think a somewhat pear shaped piece of walnut. I started with three fill coats of Acraglas, then three coats of wipe on - wipe off Tru-Oil. I found that the T-O got sticky if left on, so I wiped it down right away. It was looking very nice.

Yesterday I pulled together the ingredients for Art's Varathane 66 substitute, and this morning mixed them together and put a coat on the ball.

Friends, the thing just glows! No shiny plastic looking Tru-Oil finish, just a nice soft semi-gloss, the kind I would love to see on any stock.

Of course, this is still preliminary as I'll have to see how it finishes out and holds up over time. Also, being just 3" around it doesn't present the challenges of getting uniform results on a larger area like a butt stock.

So far I am sold on using epoxy as a fill coat. This summer I am going to finish a new stock, so this is a good trial run. The one thing I would have done different is use an epoxy base on the stock I am presently doing. I think most of the old finish was out of the pores, so the epoxy would have worked well. I like the "feel" of the home brew as well. It doesn't get as sticky as Tru-Oil.

Thanks again, Art.

Paul

Paul
Glad to hear it works for you.

Be careful when developing opinions about finishes. They change dramatically throughout their shelflife. Almost all start out at least pretty good, but go downhill fast, especially after opening. Fresh Tru-Oil is not sticky, but it gets that way fairly fast...
art

Well, we've talked about Tru-Oil a time or two. This is a new bottle, and if what you say is correct, a bottle can get "sticky" before you've finished the job. Just my limited experience.

What's your prognostication about the shelf life of the home brew? I put it in a brown medicine bottle. BTW, that's another item that was once common, but no longer available. I tried to get a couple at the pharmacy, and just got a blank look from the young gals behind the counter. Seems they don't use them to brew up liquid meds any more either. Ah, progress!

Paul

I generally mix just enough to do a job and start over fresh each time. I have made enough mistakes the other way... more than enough mistakes...

Well, round and round and I still don't know where to send to get some Varathane 66.

Wayne

Why not try Daly's products? Many Professional Gunstockers use their products.

http://www.dalyspaint.com/catalog_seafin.html

Exactly which product on that page are you suggesting for stockfinishing? Can you name a single maker using any of them straight from the can?
art

I believe Duane Wiebe uses Dalys,although I don't know if its straight from the can. I also believe that James Tucker uses Dalys, although once again I don't know if its straight from the can. And finally, I believe that Chic Worthing also uses Daly's, although once again I don't know if its straight from the can.

Varathane 66 is a floor finish, a blend of oil and polyurethane.
The original formulation was taken off the market in 1984, due to regulations.

Watco Penetrating Oil is also used on floors, but dries with more satin luster, so it is used on furniture. An oil finish like Watco or Pilkington can have shine, or luster, if the wood is properly smoothed and polished before application.

Lee
Just shaking my head... As a sharp fellow once said "If I knew as much about that as you do I would ask for advice, not give it."

Not a single sentence contains an actual fact. Amazing!
art

IOW, you have never used Varathane 66 or Watco.
Would you like a link to instructions on how to apply them to flooring, furniture or gunstocks?

Lee
Without looking I will bet any amount the manufacturer states explicitly that Watco oil is NOT reccommended for floors.

I have used and currently have 66 and Watco on hand. I have used both on furniture and gunstocks.

Polishing wood before the finish is applied is NOT a good idea.

Again, you have no clue about what you are Googling...
art

Watco for floors?

PRODUCT FEATURES:
Indoor use only (Not recommended for Floors)

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=46

Must be more than one flavor of Watco. Mad River Canoes recommended the stuff for use on wooden canoe gunwhales (ash).

I've used it for that and it worked well. I don't think I would use something recommended for indoor use only on a rifle.

Brent

Brent
I agree, that is why mixing it with spar varnish is a good idea.
art

Watco makes a bunch of finishes. Their furniture oils are great for being resistant to water and alcohol stains from drink glasses, so they are good for tables and bar tops.

The Watco I named works very well on parkay and prefit floors, especially if you follow the WATCO INSTRUCTIONS.

Look in Wooden Boat for some Watco for teak, mahogany, oak.
Look in Fine Woodworking for Watco for furniture.

This thread got me poking around the Internet a little. Happened across Old Masters Exterior Marine Spar Varnish. Data Sheet Phenolic resin and tung oil, 49% solids. Anyone try this? Looks good on paper, I like their tung oil.

Well, as I said in an earlier post, I had great success with Art's Varathane 66 home brew substitute on a small walnut project with a base coat of epoxy. So I decided to go for it with my Sharps stock with a base of Tru-Oil sanded back. The first coat of home brew seemed OK, but the second was still tacky after several hours. So I dumped it and mixed up another batch that is on there now. I had mixed it in a small brown medicine bottle, and it was still pretty full. All I can say is when this stuff goes bad, it goes fast. It's stuff like this that makes me hate stock finishing, even though I have a fair amount of experience. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that mixing up a new batch will do the trick.

Paul

Paul
I suspect one of several things is happening to your finish... Most likely (my WAG anyway) one of your components for the mix was on the shelf too long, or abused (sitting in hot sun for example), before you got it.

It could also be an incompatibility between the driers used in the two finishes. There are lots of tricks used to kick the finishes... and some might not agree with each other.

It could also be you abused the mix some how... Probably should have pointed out that oils should not be shaken if any oxygen has been introduced to the container... Just mix to combine the finishes.
art

Lee
I had missed your post... Thanks for the giggle... Precious advice again.
art

Thanks, Art. I thought I was careful, but I didn't realize that stuff was so sensitive. Didn't know about the shaking. Going to your other theory, I wonder if that stuff isn't compatible with Tru-Oil? I didn't have any problem applying it over epoxy. I also layed a test coat of the new batch on some aluminum foil at the same time I put it on the stock, and it seemed to dry OK.

Paul

Manufacturers' guides to Varathane Floor Finish

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=66

Finishing A Wood Floor With Oil-Based Polyurethane
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/flooring/hardwood/urethane/finish.htm

Gawdamighty, that dude's problems with a urethane floor finish make my stock finishing problem seem trivial!

Update: I wiped off the sticky "home brew" with some mineral spirits, and tried some Linspeed over the sanded Tru-Oil base. It seems to have hardened OK.

Verdict: The "home-brewed Varathane 66 substitute" doesn't go well over Tru-Oil. It did work OK over epoxy, quite nicely in fact.

Paul

FWIW, and advertising not withstanding...Varnish is nothing more than paint without a colored pigment added to it. Anyone selling paint that hasn't heard of varnish should probably get in another line of work.

Depending on the intended use, both Varnish and paint can have other additives mixed in designed to meet the specific needs of the job.

Lee
Come on, man! This is what you posted and I responded to: "Watco Penetrating Oil is also used on floors, but dries with more satin luster, so it is used on furniture." You also stated 66 was a floor finish. As I was posting about "Watco Danish oil finish" I linked that one.

Then you argue the point in irrational fashion and link two floor finishes... The Diamond you linked is my favorite floor finish and I did the front half of our house in hickory and used that finish. It is great. It is however not a penetrating oil finish. It is water-based poly with just a tiny bit of oil to help keep the finish flat by lubing the poly as it dries and the oil then cures.

Your second link is an oil-based poly, ala 1960s technology (though greatly improved upon since) and not a penetrating oil finish. I have laid down gallons of it on wood floors. I am intimately familiar with the stuff. It is not what we were talking about.

Now, as I keep telling you, without some semblence of background, Google is not your friend.
art

Paul
That link cracked me up! Spraying alcohol on an entire floor to pick up dust! What ever happened to tack clothes?!?! She got so rummy breathing that stuff she thought her ramble worthy of writing! And posting!
art

Woops, forgot to respond to your real point. I have used Tru-Oil under and over my mixes without issue. I suspect there is some incompatability with a component and would change brands next time.
art

Sitka Deer:

I have heard of using Boiled Linseed Oil on bare wood to 'pop' the grain. I guess this means to enhance the highlights and grain structure of the wood.

Would it be practical to apply a coat of Linseed Oil to the bare wood of a stock, after finish sanding, to make the grain stand out, then after the Linseed Oil dries, finish the stock with several coats of something like Spar varnish or polyurethane?

My concern is, would the Linseed Oil ever dry, and would it, being the first coat, prevent te Varnish or Poly from adhereing to the wood?

Also, do you think that the Linseed Oil might prevent the varnish or poly from drying?

Could you answer the same question, except applying epoxy over the Linseed oil, for a filler or sealer coat?

1234567
Any finish "pops" grain... water and mineral spirits included. The very best time for me when finishing wood is the first time I get to put the finish on it and watch that transformation.

I much prefer epoxy for a base coat so that nothing else interfers with its absorption. No oil seals like epoxy. BLO will eventually cure (polymerize) but it may take a while and may affect top coats if they are oil-based.

Test boards are extremely easy to make and will answer more than the basic questions for you. Finish anything with BLO and compare it to poly straight from the can... Do a sanded slurry finish on an open-grained piece of walnut and do another with a proper sealing job and no sanding slurry.
art

I think the problem is your limited experience monkeying with a few finishes whose chemistry you don't understand. There is a wide world of wood (and metal finishes out there). Just put the word "oil" or "varnish" on the label and that is all a lot of gun nuts think they need to know.

We went through this same dance 2 years ago when I tried to explain the differences in walnuts. No matter that I grew up on a farm that grew 600 acres of walnut and other hardwoods, and that I have been making furniture and gunstocks for 45 years, or that I am a paid consultant on finishes to Remington, Ferrari, Lexus, Cadillac and a bunch of kitchen cabinet and funiture makers like Baker. Don't mind me.

Lee
Did you sneak out of the "home" again? Tried to explain the differences in walnuts?!? Too precious!

Consultant on finishes? Please! With the statements you post? That is so far beyond funny I am nearly speechless!

"English walnut has a thin shelled fruit. It is also found wild in Iran, and is recorded as being cultivated in ancient Persia. The Romans spread walnut trees around Europe, but the English trees had to compete with faster-growing hardwoods like oaks.

French walnut is originally from England.

The American walnut, or black walnut, has a very thick shell on its fruit, and less meat, which is oily and very tasty. The wood is less figured, very dense.

Claro walnut is English walnut, grown in California (the #1 walnut producing state - look on a package in your grocery store.) It's wood color is different than an English walnut grown in the East or South, due to soil.

The Bastogne walnut is a cross between an English and a black walnut, not to produce fruit so much as a tree which grows much faster with very dense wood.

Walnuts trees can be hybrids, crosses, or grafted, which will yield unusual grain and colors. Unfortunately, since a fast-growing tree takes 100 years to mature, it takes several generations of people to learn anything about that."

Above is a C&P of your post where you were squaring all of us away on walnut, as you claimed again here...
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/920861/page/0/fpart/1

This stuff is too good to make up! Anyone able to run Google can take a quick run through and find a major, glaring error in every paragraph... But you persist! Cracks me right up! I needed the laugh!
art

Really enjoyed,.....no wait,....PROFOUNDLY enjoyed reading this thread.

Thanks, all.

GTC

Me too. Only problem is, all around a hog's rear end is pork, and I STILL don't know where to get the elusive V-66.

Wayne

I agree that this has been an interesting thread. I still find the ideal stock finish to be pretty elusive. Like many of us, I can put a good finish on a stock, maybe even very good, as long as it is rather shiny. What I still can't do, every time, reliably and consistently, is get a uniform, soft finish with that special warm glow that brings out the beauty of the wood. But I still keep trying.

Edited to add: Although I respect Art's knowledge of finishes and their chemistry, all this stuff about shelf life, oxidation in the container, heat contamination, and inter-finish compatibility, makes my head spin.

Peepsight, let us know if you find the elusive Varathane 66,

...or Bigfoot.

Paul

Paul,

Roger the heads-up to the 'fire on a source of the V-66. I'ts kinda like looking for the old Duco airplane cement we all built our first balsa model airplanes with. I suspect that both the Duco and the V-66 met their maker for the same inane reason, but we can still buy pure acetone, methy-ethyl ketone, methylene chloride, etc. Thank the frigging lawyers for the demise of any product that really works.

Wayne

Paul
The luster is not the hard part! I did not realize that was the question you were asking. Never attempt to finish with a brush, rag or finger with "finish" on it! Use gloss finishes every time and buff the finish to the desired gloss afterward.

Flattening agents used to reduce gloss are not good for the finish strength. Some are not as bad as others, but none add anything to the finish. Most are huge deficits to the finish.

The good old ways are still best on gloss. Rottenstone on a felt rag with mineral oil for a carrier will produce the ultimate eggshell luster.

Make sure the finish is well-cured before the rub-out. Thirty days in very dry conditions is plenty.
art

Best stuff I have ever found. Their Marine Spar-Varnish is great stuff, and their tung-oil sealer will penetrate wood like nothing else I've seen. You can mix it up with artists paint and get a really nice deep color.

A bit pricy, but it keeps well and a little goes a long way.

http://www.sutherlandwelles.com/

Art, I'm not understanding that line. Do you mean don't try to do a complete final finish that way, but plan to rub it out instead?

I understand all the principles you have stated, but I still have a hard time getting a good rubbed out finish. It always seems to turn out uneven, and with some rub-throughs. Like I said earlier, it's achieving uniformity that gives me fits.

Maybe I'm not getting it thick enough (I do allow plenty of cure time), but if the finish gets too thick it still looks sort of plastic, albeit rubbed out plastic.

Maybe my goal is too lofty, or maybe I'm just an old fumble-fingers.

Not ready to give up, though.

Paul

Paul
Correct, the final step in the best finish is a rubdown with rottenstone. If you are finding "rub-throughs" (assuming here that means layers of finish are obvious...) you are getting adhesion problems and creating layers... Add coats sooner and give a quick rubdown with ultrafine Bear-Tex pads if the finish has cured solidly... And above all else rub the finish down more.
art

Get Gun Savr CP Pro Custom oil hand rubbing gunstock finish clear gloss from brownells if they still sell it. You will not be disappointed it is a lot better than tru oil. Then rub it down lightly with some of brownells super fine grit rubbing compound! I did 2 mousers with it and they turned out great.