Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Lets discuss the 7mm STW and 175 Partitions

Hi guys,

Tell me about the 7mm STW. It appears to run bullets 150-200 ft/sec faster than the standard 7mm RM. I ran into a guy who usually tells it pretty straight and claims the above speeds and states that his STW (8.25 lbs, 26� barrel) recoils noticeably less than his 300 WM. Have you guys found either of these things to be true?

A 175 Nosler Partition at 3050, 160 Partition at 3150, 140 TSX at 3350, 120 at WARP+ would be sweet��������

I�ve always used 7mm for deers and 30�s for everything bigger but am seeing an advantage to the big 7mm�s. I�ve been playing with the 7mm RM for 25+ years. I never thought there was enough difference between the 7 mm RM and the 06 to amount to much. But the 175 Partition with its huge BC (0.519) may make a big 7 a more better hammer than the 06 � especially if you can get it going faster than the 7mm RM can drive them ~ 2900.

Any and all thoughts on the STW and 175 Partitions?

Can't speak to the 175 NPs, but I can tell you that the 120 gr. NBTs at max plus via a 28" tube (rechambered 1885) is the finger of God on varmints...... if you want to see what that combo does on groundhogs at a quarter-mile..... take a rake for the pieces......

I don't have any experience with the STW but I do know that 175 gr 7mm bullets do great work on big animals like moose. You could kill anything on this continent with them. If I had a STW that is the first bullet I would try.

B-I've done a lot of work with the 7 Mashburn Super using 175's and the 7 Rem with 175's and the STW with the same slug.

They'll all work and they'll all do things just fine.

Perosonally, I feel that the STW with the big slug has a quick and torky kind of recoil and is way more like the 300 Win than the 7 Rem is.

Imo it is just enough faster than the 7 Rem to make it more like the 300's. My tests have shown it'll normally be between 100-150 fps faster depending on tubes and depending on how a loader attacks his loading of ammo. Now if I wanna make it 200 faster have no doubt about it I can get it to do that. Now it has been my experience that I shouldn't but that's a whole nuther topic.

You will find many shooters of the STW to be running them to the nuts, kind of like a fella driving a red vette has to drive it as hard as it can go....

Tis a good round no doubt about it, it's popularity has been waining for a long time every since that one gun writer sort of layed off the pimping of the round. And by the way, I could never get even remotely close to the kinds of speeds he could. Isn't it amazing to see what people will do to make "their round" run the way they want it to...

Dober

I would look at a 140 tsx/ttsx in the STW and 3400-3500fps. The tsx has always shot well out of all my big 7's and the 140's will penetrate as well if not better than the 175 noslers along with being quite a bit flatter. Just my thoughts,

Brett

I use 150gr Nosler Partitions in my STW.Fast flat and very accurate..Plus great terminal performance.Couldn't be happier..

7STW What kind of speed are you getting from the 150's?

Using Beartooth Bullets - Ballistician's Corner - Recoil Calculator - I punched in these numbers for you, (using the fastest data from the latest Nosler manual) and here's what came out.

300 Winchester Magnum
8.5 lbs. rifle
180 grain bullet
73 grains of powder
3160fps
36 ft.lbs of recoil at 16fps

7mmSTW
8.5lbs rifle
175 grain bullet
89 grains of powder
3047 fps.
Recoil 38ft.lbs @ 17fps

If anything - that particular comparison - is conservative, when it comes to 7mm STW recoil. In other loads, it is even worse than the 300 Weatherby. In my own rifles the recoil is worse than both the .300 Winchester and the 300 Weatherby. It's definitely not milder - that's for sure.

I've owned a 7mmSTW cartridge within months of Layne Simpson's first articles about it in 1989. I shot game that same year. I've used it almost every year since. I had a stainless 26 inch barreled Browning A-Bolt that was a Remington 7mm Magnum re-chambered for the much bigger cartridge. I've shot a wide variety of B.C.'s big game with that cartridge. A lot of blood has gone under the bridge, so to speak.

I came to a few conclusions.

One, was that with the rather extreme velocities available - this cartridge, more than most, benefited from the Barnes X and TSX bullets. The normally great Nolser Partitions, weren't quite so great, when the lighter ones were driven at extreme speed. I think Nosler Partitions work best at "standard" velocities.

Secondly, I found that the huge powder capacity of that cartridge was wasted on lighter bullets - as they only flew a few inches flatter at 400 yards away. So, I, for the most part settled on 160 grain bullets as being the best in my rifle, with the long 175's being my second choice. I couldn't find animals big enough to stop even the 160 grain X's - or for that matter - even the 140's.

I would not do the conversion again.

Except for the muzzle blast, recoil, excessive consumption of powder, shorter barrel life, and what we imagine it can do - in our mind - the 7mm STW does nothing better than the plain old 7mm Remington Magnum can do on game - and the smaller magnum can do it with a lot less fuss and bother.

Finally, and you probably don't want to hear this - but you asked about experience with this cartridge - and I have a lot.

What I'm going to say isn't something you probably want to hear -as I wouldn't have, when I was lusting after huge cases, high bullet speeds and the lure of the big magnums. But I'd be remiss if I didn't pass on what I've learned in the last 20 years.

I don't think either of the 7mm magnums can do a single thing better than the 7mm-08, other than fly a few inches flatter a full quarter mile away. This is why my 7mm-08 has largely taken it's place, regardless of what I'm hunting, the last few years.

In almost 20 years of using the 7mmSTW, and almost 40 years of using other big high-speed magnums - I've found a few things out. There is a reason these days why the 7mmSTW usually stays in the vault while I reach past it - for the little 7mm-08.

With the little 7mm-08 the game (even the biggest) just keeps on falling the same way it always did,and I now use half as much powder when I reload, I get a third of the recoil when I pull the trigger, a lot less muzzle blast when the round goes off, and the rifle, being a full two pounds lighter is just so much more fun to pack and shoot.

And, miracle of miracles - the animals just keep on falling - like they always did.

The Germans were on to something when they devised the 7mm Mauser over 100 years ago, and of course, the 7mm-08 is just a modern version of the same cartridge. I think they'll both be in use long after the 7mm STW is but another forgotten footnote in rifle cartridge history.

The Germans understood the concept of "optimum case capacity" when they designed the 7mm Mauser - and that concept is as valid now - as it ever was.

I had one STW and it kicked harder than I wanted a 7mm to kick!

For that level of recoil I would prefer a 300 Win or Weatherby.

I've had my Rem 700 Sendero SF 7mm STW for about ten years now. I've settled on the 140 grain X-bullet for deer and I would go for a bit heavier in an MRX if I was to use it for larger game. With the 140, this cartridge is truly a friggin' laser. This beefy rifle fits me very well, as I'm 6'3" tall with long arms and big hands. I don't mind the 8 pounds or so, and the recoil is well tamed.

If you run the cartridge with bullets from light to heavy in a ballistics program, using like max ordinates and max velocities fitting each weight, you will see that at 500 yards the 120 grain X (for example) will not have dropped as far (a couple inches less)as the 140 grain (for example). Its not until 1000 or so yards that the heavier, higher BC bullet finally catches up to the 120. Basically, all the bullet weights seem to fly very similarly to great distance. When it comes to trajectory to 1000 yards, I'd be happy with any of the bullet weights, befitting the game hunted.

The magazine length is really the determining factor for cartrige length in my STW. My rifle lets me seat the 140 grain X-bullet without filling more than the neck, while still fitting into the mag. Longer bullets must be seated farther into the case, replacing powder capacity. (I have the same gripe about my 6mm Rem in a short action.) My Sendero's magazine would allow a 7mm Rem Mag to be loaded to great length, using very little powder space with even the longest bullets.

What I'm getting at is (at least in my rifle), If you want to use the heaviest and longest bullets in the Rem action, you might be better off chambering the rifle in 7mm Rem Mag and perhaps even lengthen the throat (if needed). The extra long Rem Mag cartridge, with a heavy bullet seated to not intrude on powder space, would still fit into the magazine. Configured this way, the REm Mag could be a truly long-range rifle; cheaper brass too. I think it may even tend to be more accurate. A Rem Mag, with heavy bullet seated way out comes close to the powder capacity of the STW with heavy bullet seated into its powder space. (Its the same with the 243 Win compared to the 6mm Rem in a short action.)

If I were to buy the same rifle again for long-range work (and I do love the rifle) I'd go with the rem mag, not the STW.

I've never owned an STW, but shot more than a few, always felt they just gave a push when it came to recoil, not much of anything. Along the lines of an 06.

Now I have a 7x300 wtby, need to buy dies, its about the same as the stw, mine has a 28 inch #6 tube, I don't expect it to recoil, in fact it is on a donor 300wtyb action, that gun had recoil, I suspect this one won't.

I would not shoot anything lighter than a 140ish x series, don't get hung up on flat for a long range round, what you want is wind resistant, thats usually with a less flat but heavier bullet... 150-160 area X bullets are probably exactly whatt I''ll start with for small deer.

Jeff

Nice post with a lot of experience. What's your bullet of choice in the 7-08?

I've tried most every weight.

In B.C. you never know what you are going to run into - so I stick with the TSX's now. I've tried all of the bullet weights, and with the penetrating ability of the TSX's (and the fact the heavier ones seem to mushroom to the same diameter) I do believe it's valid to drop down in weight, as Barnes recommends.

Over time, I've gone from the 175's, to the 160's, and now I'm mostly using the 140's (on everything) including the big stuff. I may even try the 120's on the big stuff, but it's really just an exercise in trying to learn more about how much the rules have changed with all-copper bullets. I suspect even the 120's will penetrate a bull moose most of the time. I can honestly see no real reason not to keep things simple, and if your rifle likes them, use the 140's on everything.

Using my 7 Mashburn Super I've shot elk with the 140 the 150 and the 160 TSX, when directed properly they all died rather quickly. Same as any other bullet I've used in the gun.

I've shot a fair amount of stuff with the 120's and I do know that they'll kill elk just fine, and I am also sure that one will have more than a few times when the bullets will not exit.

Take your pick and run the bullet you wish and that your rifle likes.

I tend to run a 150 NBT a lot and about need to use the 140 TSX at a bit more speed just to keep the trajectory's a bit closer as the TSX with the challenged BC's tend to drop a bit more.

Dober

That's exactly what I'm debating. I bought some 160 TSX's for my 280 Mountain Rifle but am seriously considering exchanging them for the 140 or 120s and going with the faster speed, esp when I've seen the same in other rifles, they all open to the same diameter and great penetration so why not go with the faster one. Not to mention I want to keep one load for everything in this rifle.

Because of a higher BC with the heavier bullets. They buck wind better and only shoot a couple inches "less-flat" than the lighter bullet at extreme range.

Interesting. I've had a 7RM for the ast 25 years, I'm on my third. I've also had a 7-08 for a good 20 years at least, I'm on my third one of those. My most recent 7-08 is a M700 Mtn rifle. The 22" barrel is long enough to really get your money's worth from any load, and still portable enough to leave the 7mm Mag in camp if you have to walk very far.

On deer size game, there is a very small difference, maybe no difference, on how fast they go down.

Used a 7mm Rem mag for some years, often with the 175 Nosler Partition or the 175 Sierra SPBT Gameking. Thought that was a very good combination at about 2900 fps. Accurate, modest recoil and wonderful results on game.

Considered bumping one of my 7mm RM's to 7 STW... But never did it. Just didn't have any problem with the performance of the standard 7mm Rem mag.

FWIW, Guy

Spent much of the day sitting in airplanes and putting out brush fires at the office..................... I need a sanity break

Seems most don't feel the STW is not a big step up from the 7mm RM - at least not at the expense of recoil incurred. I'd like to shoot one to measure for myself. The round does look like it has laser potential.

As to recoil, most of my calculations indicate it should recoil less than a 300 magnum. Most loads I'm looking at burn 75-80 grains of powder under 160's or 175's. An 8lb rifle should recoil ~ 28-32 ft/lbs at ~ 15 - 15.5 ft/sec. An 8 lb, 7mm RM, burns ~ 65-70 grains powder under most 160's and 175's and recoils at ~ 26-29 ft/lbs. An 8 lb full stoked 300 shooting 180's should do ~ 34-36 ft/lbs recoil.

I've had a 7mm RM for 25+ years but have never used it on anything bigger than deer of which it is overkill. I do like the laser trajectories of the big 7's though..............

So B, what would you be using the STW for?

I kind of look at the gains from 7 to STW like I do the gains from a 7/08 to a 280.

And, what are you running for a scope?

Thx
Dober