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Sorry kids but being locked up is punishment no matter how you slice it.

Punishment works to a degree but more punishment beyond that is a waste of time. It's like hitting a dog for doing something wrong. Hit them enough to teach them and it's training. Hitting them more than that doesn't make them any better....the effect only goes so far.

Drug laws are a good example. Look at our incarceration rate for drug crimes and then look at the same rate, per capita, in Canada. Their rates of locking folks up are a lot lower so their costs are lower as well. There isn't a nickel's worth of difference in the drug use or sales rates on the street between the two countries. All this locking up dopers is doing is costing money and having ZERO desired effect.

Another thing to look at...is it possible for most of the people we release after their sentence is up to even get a job? Most of them can't read and have no skills to even fill out a job application. You can beat them until their skin falls off and they'll still be unemployable. Even if you doubled their sentence they'd still be unemployable because they won't know one iota more when they do get out.

So it feels all manly and tough to say, "Punishment is the key" but if you look at it logically it's not. While they're in prison they should be forced or otherwise motivated to learn to read, do math, and gain some kind of job skills. That way when they are released they at least have a chance to get a real job and stay out of prison.

Of course I'm talking about garden variety criminals like robbers, drug dealers, burglars, etc. For sex crimes like rape, pedophila or child molestation it's a whole different enchilada because those are a whole different kind of offense committed for a whole different set of reasons.

The article makes it seem like other countries are more humane that the US because they have fewer prisoners. Ever wonder why? Cause those countries kill most criminals and those fortunate enough to escape the death sentence usually die in prison.

Sorry kids but being locked up is punishment no matter how you slice it.

Punishment works to a degree but more punishment beyond that is a waste of time. It's like hitting a dog for doing something wrong. Hit them enough to teach them and it's training. Hitting them more than that doesn't make them any better....the effect only goes so far.

Drug laws are a good example. Look at our incarceration rate for drug crimes and then look at the same rate, per capita, in Canada. Their rates of locking folks up are a lot lower so their costs are lower as well. There isn't a nickel's worth of difference in the drug use or sales rates on the street between the two countries. All this locking up dopers is doing is costing money and having ZERO desired effect.

Another thing to look at...is it possible for most of the people we release after their sentence is up to even get a job? Most of them can't read and have no skills to even fill out a job application. You can beat them until their skin falls off and they'll still be unemployable. Even if you doubled their sentence they'd still be unemployable because they won't know one iota more when they do get out.

So it feels all manly and tough to say, "Punishment is the key" but if you look at it logically it's not. While they're in prison they should be forced or otherwise motivated to learn to read, do math, and gain some kind of job skills. That way when they are released they at least have a chance to get a real job and stay out of prison.

Of course I'm talking about garden variety criminals like robbers, drug dealers, burglars, etc. For sex crimes like rape, pedophila or child molestation it's a whole different enchilada because those are a whole different kind of offense committed for a whole different set of reasons.

Ah, but there is an answer...........it's called PUNISHMENT.

We don't have that now, just incarceration......mass murderer Richard Speck's well publicized prison lifestyle comes quickly to mind.

When PUNISHMENT becomes swift, certain and onerous, crimes will fall off.

When it doesn't, crimes rise because there is no or little fear of PUNISHMENT.

What's the typical time from conviction & sentencing for a capital crime in a capital state until actual execution?

Maybe 20 years minimum? or longer?

Not exactly swift and certain PUNISHMENT.

And while on the subject........re: cruel & unusual PUNISHMENT;

Let's go back to hanging or firing squad.........both were in frequent use at the time the Constitution was written, so by default, neither can rightly be called either cruel or unusual.

MM

The article makes it seem like other countries are more humane that the US because they have fewer prisoners. Ever wonder why? Cause those countries kill most criminals and those fortunate enough to escape the death sentence usually die in prison.

Steely, I am aware of the contradiction, and I cannot argue with your logic.
I guess we just allow our youth to kill themselves with these poisons, and chalk it up to natural selection.
After all, there are people whose life is enhanced by crack.

If the current criminal justice system worked, the prisons would not be full and more needed every year. The system is flawed and more laws will not fix it.

When I was a young man I lived near Joliet, IL, home of Stateville prison. They had a truck farm, meat and dairy herds as well as poultry and hogs. They also had a tailor shop that made all the state uniforms for the prisons, state police and others that wore a state uniform, a shoe factory, laundry, bakery, kitchens and a furniture factory that made ALL the furniture for the state. All this was manned by prison labor that learned a trade of useful skill. THIS SYSTEM TURNED A PROFIT, year after year. Suddenly it was determined that this was cruel and unusual punishment and slavery and it was stopped. It now costs IL taxpayers over 65,000.00 a year to house EACH prisoner. Now the prisoners sit in lockdown, watching TV, exercising and using drugs. They no longer get a High School education along with the skills training either.

Go ahead, convince me the current system is better than the old one.