Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Wall Tent Frame (Internal Frame vs Traditional Setup)

Hey Guys,
I'm looking at buying a wall tent from Davis, looking at a 12x14 and will possibly add a porch in the future.
Kinda trying to decide on pole setup. I see Davis lists the Internal frame angle kit or the Traditional Pole setup. I've looked at both videos on how they set up and both look pretty slick.
Trying to decide on which one would make more sense for me....any pros or cons that I should know about when making the choice?? Weather resistance, weight, stability, set up time, which is easier to set up, etc, etc.....

I'll be talkin with Davis about the choice but wanted some real world input as well...

I've used 12 x 14's for 25+ years and go both ways. When truck or boat camping we go with an internal frame (self fabricated from electrical conduit) which is quick and stout if all tie down points are well staked. I can have one standing by myself in about 15 minutes, but need a little more time to stake things down and guy the eves.

On horse pack trips we scrounge on-site poles and do the old fashiond set up. Typically we anchor the ridge pole to one live tree and use lashed support poles to hold the ridge up on the door end. One wants an absolutlely smooth ridge pole to avoid tears. With this set up, one only needs to secure 3 full size poles. We cut about 14 five-foot sticks to guy the eves out.

We've never bothered with the classic 7 pole setup, even though it's gorgeous to look at.

Either system should tolerate whatever weather gets tossed your way. My only worry has been with a potential 2 or 3 foot wet snowfall if one was not at base to sweep it off the roof. A single large plastic tarp over the roof helps the tent slip snow, but even then it needs a little help to come off. From memory, I think I use a 16 x 18 foot tarp with a hole cut for vertical chimney passage. Obviously the tarp is not needed for summer ventures.

If there's potential that we will return to a given woodsie spot, we will tuck our poles, upright, into a nearby secluded spruce or pine and typically find them still there in following years. We have poles out that we have used for almost 20 years. Ocassionally though a less knowledgable camper exploits them as firewood.

I would get a frame though for those instances where one ends up on non forested spots. It's pain in the but to pack around solid 16 foot poles for a campsite out in the sagebrush.

I've been using A-wall tents for many years. Unless going in on horses and mules, I'll take the internal frame anytime!

Here is a link to the best tent frame angles out there.

http://www.creativeshelters.com/Fittings/Canopy-Fitting.aspx

I like the one inch electric conduit, especially for a 10'x12' or 12'x14' tent, although I never had any problem with the one inch frame I used for years in all kinds of weather for my 14'x16'x5' A-wall.

Stoves??

Here is a link to one of best out there. A "Two Dogs" model would be perfect for a 12x14 tent.

http://www.fourdog.com/index.html

Another suggestion. Be sure and buy a tent with FIVE feet high sidewalls. You'll never be sorry.

Good luck.

L.W.

Rackmastr:

I bought a 15' x 20' tent in 1991. I started using the traditional wooden center beam resting on two end posts and that part seems to work OK, but what doesn't work too well is the little posts at the hips. They create a lip that traps snow and ice which forms an ice dam that threatens the whole tent. So you have to be constantly removing snow from that edge on each side of the tent.

I found that the internal frame with welded joints and EMT tubing works best on my tent. I bought the welded joints from Cabelas and bought 1" EMT at a local electrical supply house, which I cut to the right length using a pipe cutter.

But the previous poster has a point. I agree that the prefab internal frame is not well suited to horse packing because the poles are pretty awkward to hawl on a horse. I tried cutting the poles in half and installing sleeves so they would carry better but those poles are pretty heavy and the sleeved arrangement is even heavier.

KC

Leanwolf has a good point. My 15' x 20' tent has 4' high sidewalls and the roof is so low near the edges that we might as well have a smaller tent with 5' walls and that would provide about the same amount of useable space.

We use an old sheet metal sheep herders stove and it's about rusted through. We may get a few more seasons out of it but it won't last for too much longer.

KC

Rackmastr, I would go with internal frame angles, and cut the 1" EMT frame(from Home Depot or the like) myself to save the shipping. Use the internal frame when you can drive to site, if packing in cut poles on site from the forest as suggested by 1minute.

The Davis boys are pack in elk hunters themselves, they know what works. Tell them how you plan to use your tent and they'll give honest advice.

By the way, Davis' May special is 10% off anything in the store....

Rackmastr,

I want to thank you for pointing out that Davis Tent & Awning has videos on their web-page. I picked up a 12x14 tent with an internal frame earlier this year, and while it isn't exactly rocket science, their video of how to set up an internal frame was a lot simpler than how I did it the one and only time I set mine up. As they say, a picture (or a video in this case) is worth a thousand words!

Headed to Idaho hunting bears in a couple weeks, so that'll be the first time my new set up gets used in the field.....can't hardly wait!

Great Waputi, a bit off topic here. Just wondering where you'll be hunting for Idaho bear?? There's still a lot of snow in the high country.

L.W.

I've never been there before but my buddy has. It's up in the panhandle, Couerdelene (Sp?) area. I've actually been wondering about the snow situation.

Thanks for the tips so far guys...

Actually lookin at the 'pre-made' traditional setup that Davis runs....the system that you buy the ridge-pole, etc and all the side poles vs cutting them out of timber....looks like an interesting system and easy to use.....

I'll give them a jingle and see what they have to say about it....

This is what I mean by the "Traditional Setup" and it actually says its their favorite method...

http://www.davistent.com/html/TraditionalPoles.html

And the videos that show the internal vs the Traditional Pole setup....

http://www.davistent.com/davisTent/html/VideoLibrary.html

And ya...will be ordering in May to take advantage of the 10% off....

I feel the folks at Davis are correct.

I would recommend their traditional pole setup.

I have both and much prefer the traditional poles.

My last tent came with a pole set like similar to the traditional pole set sold by Davis and I didn't like having a pole dead center in the doorway, so I ended up buying an A-frame. If I didn't have an internal frame for my new tent, I'd buy the A-frame sold by Cylinder Stoves. May break down and buy one anyway.

http://www.cylinderstoves.com/catalog/frames-aframe-c-23_31.html

Rackmastr, there was a recent thread on wall tents that has some good pics various set ups and some I posted of our Davis tent (14 x 16):

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2140544/page/0/fpart/1

We went with the internal frame and have been very happy with it. One thing I would ask is how many are in your hunting party and will you be packing it or just offloading from a vehicle? Reason I ask is we too were originally looking at a 12 x 12 or 12 x 14 and somewhere on Davis' site they say the biggest complaint is most people wish they'd have went with a bigger tent. So we did go bigger and are glad we did.

I can't comment on the traditional set up but the internal has worked well for us. We just got the angles and cut it from conduit. The down side is all the poles are heavy so if you're packing in, it may not be for what you're looking for. Anyway, we've had ours for about 4 hunting seasons now and through trial and error have learned a few things.

Thanks guys..

M1,
I think the tent will be used for 2 or 3 people at the most....I was thinking of going to a 14x16 but figure the 12x14 should work for my needs and may just add an awning or a porch in the future for some of the storage space, etc.
Not sure if it will ever get packed anywhere....mostly truck stuff. I dont like the idea of having a pole in the doorway or in the middle of the tent, but who knows....something to think about..
I'll have to chat with them and see some of the benefits, etc of each system....the internals sure look ncie and easy to set up, less ropes, etc but tough to say....

As well....

Has anyone bought or used the stoves that Davis sells? I have looked at various stoves online and different options....wondering about the 'Valley' model from Davis with 10% off for a complete kit might be the way to go....

Would like any comments on it.

I think the setup will work nicely for 2-3 people...12x14 tent, get a rain fly with awning, nice little stove, room for a bit of gear inside (cook outside) and should make a decent camp....

I'm leaning on the internal after going through all the old threads....but will still talk to Davis and see what the options would work best for me...

Each one in our party (3) owns one of the collapsable sheep herder stoves. The oldest is 30+ years and mine, the youngest, has seen about 20 seasons. Pipe stacks inside itself and we run the pipe through the ceiling with no issues. A damper in the bottom end of the pipe does an excellent job of regulating flame/heat, and the environment remains t-shirt toasty in sub zero conditions.

They weigh about 15 lbs with chimney. We went that route because we do a horse pack trip every couple of years, where we don't carry cook stoves. It has a flat top very conducive to cooking, and will hold about 2 ten by 22 inch logs easily.

Another aspect of our camp is that we sleep in an unheated adjacent dome tent on the truck trips. The wall tent is for cooking, eating, and socializing, and chairs and gear can pretty well stay in place. Sleeping gear can also stay put in the adjacent tent. Keep you coolers well away from your stove. Several friends have put some serious melt on their coolers. We tend to keep all of our coolers outside unless one is used for dry goods storage.

On pack trips all activities are in the wall tent. That being, sleeping gear must be stowed each AM to make room for meal prep etc. Our max party for a pack trip has been 4 hunters in a 12 x 14. It's a bit crowded but workable. We do not run a stove all night, because we all have excellent bags, each enjoys a good nights sleep without waking to tend fire, and one is not waking to adjust to changing temps.

Lastly, if at all possible, do not bring arms into ones heated wall tent. Condensation will be horrific and do serious damage especially if units are put up in a vinyl case. Exhaled breath, steam from, cooking, drying clothes, and moisture from the soil beneath tend to keep the humidity high on ones wall tent. Leave the guns under shelter outside or in an unheated rig.

Happy trails, 1Minute

Rackmaster,

I am also ordering a tent from davis (14x16). I going with the internal setup.

I debated ordering the summit ridge stove at same time which is tempting because it would be cheaper.

If you scroll down the blog I linked below you can see an article about summit vs cylinder stoves. I have no experience with any tent stoves myself but my biggest concern is efficiency at this point.

http://www.outfitterwarehouse.com/blog/

I am going to go with a four dog stove or other made in USA and pay the extra money.

Wow, I have been using what Davis calls the Traditional set-up for nigh on 20 years and can honestly say I conceived it all on my own with no previous wall tent experience. I use 1 1/2" medium wall chain link fence top-rail that come with the swaged butt joints. I made adapters to connect the two end poles to the top ridge pole but am currently thinking of a better way. I use 1/2" EMT with a small duplex nail welded in the end for the eaves. If it is real windy i will guy out the two end poles with a rope but 90% of the time I only use the 5 ropes on the eaves to hold it all together.

Shipping on those poles can be frightful- best bought locally. I made the two end poles different lengths so they are easier to set up. I have done it in my backyard alone many times, but it is easier with a helper.

My neigher, who has deeper pockets than me, bought two wall tents from Cabelas along with the complete internal frames- and had it all overnighted to boot! Having set his up a time or two- it has several drawbacks and only one advantage: It has lots of pieces to lose, it is NOT tight when done and is rickety in the wind. It does however, dispense with the guy ropes in good weather altogether. I can put the "traditional" as tight as needed! I use a single phillips head machine screw with keep the ridge pole sections together- the end poles are gravity secured only. If I have a decent snow I will cut a stout conifer and stick it in the middle of the ridge pole as needed.

Hope this helps. Oh, my current tent is a "Reliable Tent and Awning" product and so far, better made than any of the other tents I have camped in! I think I got it in Montana.

Dennis

Something not often mentioned in discussions on canvas tents is that they've seldom had the shrink treatment when they come from the maker. The process will make them even more water tight, and these are the directions I received with my unit.

Set up and hose down until thoroughly wet on a warm dry summer day. Dry thoroughly and repeat about 3 times. A half hour of lawn sprinkler treatment from the outside would not soak my tent through, so I put a lawn sprinkler inside and went to work with the hose and nozzle from the outside. Living in eastern Or with no humidity, it would dry in about 1/2 hour. From memory, I think I took about 4 inches off of most dimensions.

We built our frames before shrinking and then started the process. None of the angles change with shrinkage, but the tent does become slightly smaller in all dimensions. That being, one simply chop saws the frame down to the appropriate scale. Mine now has a nice tight fit, but not such that it's difficult to assemble or zipper the door shut.

The process is no absolutely required but I'd suggest it. If the unit gets soaked and dries a couple times during use, one may have difficulty with subsequent setups. Potential tearing, damge to the zippers, and a skirt that does not reach the ground are possible outcomes. These are not things one wants to address in foul weather the night before elk season out in the woods.

Lastly, never store a canvas tent that is damp. I'm blessed wih two huge living rooms and an understanding wife. I also made a plywood box with a tight lid for storage. That has eliminated any chance of a mouse augering through a folded tent left in a garage or shed (a mistake one of my partners made and did not discover until we were in camp.

Take good care of one, and it should easily get you through 25 or 30 seasons. Again, happy trails, 1Minute