Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Second Amendment A 2nd hypothetical question - ?

We all agree that if we find ourselves being lined up naked at the edge of a pit with machine gunned corpses in the bottom, it is way past time to fight back. But where do you draw the line? Remember Hitler was elected. <P>Should we comply with an order to turn in all firearms? If no, do you shoot the Deputy Sheriff or local cop who knocks politely to do a house search?<P>What if they just want to confiscate all semi-autos and high capacity magazines? Or all handguns but leave long guns? What if they want everything but shotguns? <P>Should the Australians and Brits be shooting back at their police now that they are living in that nightmare?<P>What about total registration with felony hard time for not registering? Isn't that what the Canadians imposed last year? <P>What if you are restricted to buying one per year? or one per month? <P>What if now that we are forced to call in every purchase, a $500 tax is levied on every sale to cover the cost of the system? <P>What if every new gun must be registered and you need to be called in to the government's central registration bureau before you can buy it? Isn't that what we have on our purchases from an FFL despite the assurances that no data is being retained?<P>Where should a free people begin to not comply with tyranny? <P>When is there a moral obligation to move from non-compliance to active resistance?<P>I honestly don't have the answer but I'm very curious whether we would all make the choice any where near the same time or whether views are widely apart. <P>Mike.<P><BR>

That is the hardest question to answer. Why? Well, the general public would think we are extreme to fight back even once they ban all of our guns. The only time they would think to fight back is at the pit, when, as you said, it is already too late. But it is already too late even once they ban all guns. We would need to fight way before then to have anywhere close to adequate firepower to win the battle. For all I know, it may even be too late now. There is no real time. If we start at the right time as far as the line, the public will be against us and there will be many 'tories' out there on the government's side. Those would be nearly impossible odds. And if we start way too late (pit), the public would fight back with us if they could, and we could, but we will have nothing to do it with. So there is no real answer.

On the contrary the time to fight is now. Today, tomorrow, and everyday. We have a reasonable position to defend, a Constitution that is on our side, and a public that will still listen to reason. But you don't fight with guns, you fight with your membership in the NRA, donations to it and other second amendment supporting groups, with letters to your congressman and Senators, the President, editors, whoever. Be reasonable, polite, and logical. Don't rant, rave, or threaten, just explain why your position is correct and the other side is wrong.

If It Flies, etc, .... I agree, but like Mssgn/Mike, I sometimes ponder the question of ... At what point, exactly, would it become necessary to be "impolite" ? <BR>At some point, civility amounts to treason, imo. Thankfully, our founding fathers found it necessary to become downright rude to the authorities while they still had the tools to fight with. <BR>Where do we draw the line? Or is this subject taboo? This is a boogieman that's almost too horrifying for many of us to comtemplate. (which could ultimately be the cause of our demise.)

We're already past the point of "politeness" If there is a knock at my door, its "pryed from my cold dead fingers" time instantly.<P>And if more people were that devout in their convictions, and voiced them, the Deputy's wouldn't be knocking on doors regardless of what the socialist government directs them to do, cuz they'll know what awaits them.<P>------------------<BR>Lest not we forget, America is a Republic, NOT a democracy. Learn the difference, spread your knowledge, help end the lie. Fear a government that fears your guns.

"Where should a free people begin to not comply with tyranny?"<P>Kinda oxymoronic term. <P>Free people, comply, tyranny.<P>Tyranny does not ASK compliance, it compels performance, "free" people can not be compelled to do anything.<P>American's are not free, those that think we are, are fools. <P>Our forefathers revolted over a tax rate of 5%, The governments takes from me (at the point of a gun no less) over 50% of what I earn. We all work from Monday 07:00 till about 10:20 Wednesday just to pay the Federal employment taxes, then there are State, County, Municipal, Fuel, Transportation, Meals, Accommodations, State and Federal Communications (telephone), capital gains, inheritance, etc. etc. etc. tax, tax, tax, <BR>Does this sound like a free man? or a free society?<P>------------------<BR>Lest not we forget, America is a Republic, NOT a democracy. Learn the difference, spread your knowledge, help end the lie. Fear a government that fears your guns.

my personal line is drawn when my door gets kicked in. <P>in the meantime, i hope that all those letters, e-mails, and phone calls to my senators do the job (daschle and johnson are anti-gun democrats).<P>i hope my daughter would understand. i hate the thought that it may come to a fire-fight. i also hate that i am not even close to measuring up to the standards that the strong-men who signed the constitution have set, and that i could not sacrifice as much as they surely did.<P>i am a member of the nra. i contact my senators w/ my feelings. where do i go from there?<P>------------------<BR>Hunting is not a matter of life or death. It is much more important than that.

Thanks guys: So far what I see is a common view that we are in the NRA, vote, write to our congressmen, and are willing to politely lose the fight until OUR personal door gets kicked in. Even then we'd be viewed by the majority as violent criminals fighting law enforcement. <P>There just is no easy answer, and we are sheep because of it.<P>Personally I think we should do everything legal to dig in our heels against the losing battle, but 50 years from now we will have lost our center fire arms through attrition and apathy, one step at a time. <P>When/if the time to fight comes our law abiding nature will ensure our defeat. Compliance up until that point will ensure that it will be a battle of stones against tanks (like the Palestinians are doing today). <P>Of course I could be wrong too....<BR>

no, i think you are right. i was thinking about your questions yesterday, and i realize that when the knock on the door comes, it is too late. kinda like being at the pit.<P>when the point comes, though, that things start getting more outta hand, the only way to win the fight is to be organized and focused. seems unlikely at best.<P>when the door gets kicked in, the situation would be you (one person, or at best one household) against all of law enforcement. kind of poor odds, eh?<P>the line needs to be drawn before that point. gun owners need to be organized and focused before it comes to that.<P>sad state of affairs, at best. the nra has a heavy burden across it's shoulders. very hard to organize what members they have, and not all gun owners are members. probably not even half of gun owners are nra members.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Hunting is not a matter of life or death. It is much more important than that.

If the numbers are anywhere near correct there are about 4 million NRA members and 80 million gun owners.<P>That's about 5 percent packing the load for the other 95 percent.<P>That 95 percent either do not believe there will be a problem, or, they just don't really care.<P>In either case it's a sad situation.<P>2D

Ok guys lets see if we can get the big picture. Anyone remember Star Trek, 60's , or even Flash Gordon 50's, the ruling gov is a one world gov, well boys and girls we are on the verge and to get there certian things are needed, you can still have individual countries but one ruling body with power to pass laws and enforce them, so where does that leave us when our own leaders are for it. We maybe educated but human nature is still the same and that ain't going to change........people are always going to try telling you what to do and think.....

Damn, Mike, you ask some hard questions.<P>The only one I can answer easily is "Where should a free people begin to not comply with tyranny?". A free people should not BEGIN to comply with tyranny! I will not register my guns, but since all were bought from legit dealers, they probably know what I got. I will not turn in my guns, and I'd rather lose my life than my freedom. Thats what they are to me: freedom.<P>Trouble is, the American People aint gonna go down swinging. Democracy ends with a wimper, not a bang. It's already started. Ruby Ridge, Waco, and a bunch of other "actions" are the begining of the end. They'll take us out one by one, in silence. You'll never get a chance to defend your rights, cause one house at a time, they'll bust down the doors in the middle of the night and take your AR-15 and your grand fathers single shot at the same time.<P>Divide and conquer. They'll raid your house, because you got an AR, but not mine cause I only got bolt actions. Little by little, one by one, until there's no one left with a means to resist. Pretty bleak sounding, huh?<BR>7mmbuster<P>------------------<BR>

Mike - Have you read Unintentional Consequences by John Ross? If you haven't you should. It deals with the problem in its own strange way. <p>[This message has been edited by Clint (edited June 12, 2001).]

30 pages left! I plan to finish it tonight. Everyone should read it. Its 800+ pages of the best fiction I ever read. Makes Creighton and Clancy look like 3rd grade book reports. Seriously, anyone who has a brain NEEDS to read this book.

It's all about "Feeding the Hogs"

hmmmm.....I better finish the book before I respond....

I haven't read the book, but it's at the top of my Father's Day wish list! Well, not at the very top, but it's the item closest to the top that I have a snowball's chance at!

I finished it....must say...thats in my top ten books!

As long as we're on the subject of books, here are two that I have found invaluable to dealing with the frustration I feel about current policies and infringements on our rights; "101 Things to do Until the Revolution" and "Don't Shoot the *******s (Yet)" both by Claire Wolfe. They are humorous and informative. She has a unique wit and some good ideas.

I personally believe we are way past being civil, being polite, or using reason..<P>We are also past redress of grievances to our government.<P>We are also past open and armed resistance.<P>we should be going to ground, managing our finances to eliminate personal debt,developing support groups with folks we trust who value liberty.<P>We should be divesting ourselves of all connections with the militia, gun culture, firearms ownership, memberships in organizations and perhaps even sites such as this..<P>In WWll, France capitulated like a round heeled ***** to the Nazis.. as america is doing to the U.N. and those in our own country who want to disarm and subjugate the people..<P>BUT, there WAS an element in France who continued to fight..ultimately helping to defeat those who wanted to own them.. <P>I think it's time to 'hide in plain sight'..jim