Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Shotgun rifled / slug opinions

Yep, did pick up on the treestand thing right smart like and still can't figure out why you think a shotgun would be more safer than a rifle when all of your shots are going to be "downhill" into dirt right outta the gate........

And as far as the hardship caused by a rifle shooting out of a treestand, from your perspective....I can't for the life of me figure out why you'd want a firearm with even more recoil to rectify that problem.

When you bring a good argument to the table I'll listen.......

The facts, that a slug is more likely to ricochet, and a rifle bullet is more likely to dissinegrate or bury itself in a backstop, are proven....

Am surprised that your extensive Physics Education didn't explain that to you. Musta been a frat party the night before....

Said I don't care for 'em, didn't say I didn't know how to use 'em.......

WW, I saw in your 243 POSTt that you use TSX's. I loaded some too for a hunt in CO. Those very tough bullets. I really don't think those "dissinegrate" A TSX at very high velocity has the potential to richochet and travel farther than a slug ricochet. The design of a TSX is pointed, which would also aid in a ricochet.

I never said anything about an extensive physics education. You keep bringing up dirt and backstop. I don't hunt at the range. With your smarts I would like to hear how a triple shock at 3000 fps never ricochets and how solid copper disintegrates...You might also want to spend some time with a dictionary. "Dissinegrates" isn't a word.

Your post above shows what kind of self righteous idiot you are. I stated earlier that I have never hunted deer with a slug gun. Why do you think it is bad for someone who doesn't have experience with a particular subject to ask opinions from other people who do have that experience?

Recoil effects people differently. I wouldn't think an auto shotgun slug would be that much worse than an 30-06 bolt. Maybe I am wrong, but the only way to know is either ask people that do use or buy/shoot an auto to find out. I think asking yesterday what others who use think is a good start. Is your slug gun semi-auto or single shot? I know that would make a difference in recoil.

Let me wade into this mess. I have hunted in Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky for 25 years. Some are shotgun-only. KY allows centerfire rifle.

The reason shotgun slugs were considered safer was because
they were supposed to carry a shorter distance than rifles. This was long before Hunter Education was mandatory, and a lot of dofi (plural of dofus) were thought to be air-mailing their shots.

IMHO, Slugs do not tend to ricochet. They tend to flatten, deform, and spin off harmlessly, losing their energy quickly. However, that's just my take on years of using Remmie 12 GA sluggers. I actually never have seen a slug ricochet in a hunt, only in practice.

Nowadays, with sabots and all the other new variations, I really don't see a huge difference. What might have made sense in the day of the punkin ball does not make sense anymore.

The actual morbidity numbers on shotgun vs. rifle are about the same. The reason is that most hunter injuries come from the dofi shooting at bushes or just sounds instead of deer. It happens at close range, and it often happens regardless of the amount of orange being worn by the victim. Hunter Ed has gone a long way to reduce those numbers, but you cannot seem to keep the dofi from reproducing.

You will probably see states go the way of IN, which is currently experimenting with centerfire rifles in pistol calibers, or just dropping the whole goofy idea entirely and allowing modern centerfire rifles. With hunter numbers dropping, this might be a good way to get some new blood in the game.

If I were looking for a new slug gun, I'd go with an inexpensive dedicated pump. I have a Mossberg 500 12 GA with a rifled barrel and a scope that puts Brenneke's into the same hole offhand at 50 yards. The receiver came D&T'd, and I put a Bushnell banner 1.5-4.5x shotgun scope on it. It also doubles as my turkey gun with a different barrel. I also keep an Rem 1100 with a smoothbore deer barrel for jumping deer out of the cedars. Those encounters are usually under 20 yards.

12 vs 20? My advice is 12. My other advice is to keep your shots inside a range that you can afford. I'm sure there are 200 yard slug guns, but by the time you're done setting it up, you've got $100's invested in slug ammo doing all the testing. I shoot cheap Remmie 12 GA sluggers. I kept them inside 4" on a 50 yard pieplate offhand back in 1984, and I haven't worried about it since. In 20 years, I've only had to pass on one deer that was too far out to shoot. All the rest have been right in my face, or right under my stand. If you want to see absolute devastation , you should see what a 12 GA slugger does to a the boiler room of 200 lb deer at 45 yards!

In the past 10 years, KY centerfire rifle seasons included, I have not had to stretch beyond 80 yards to bag a deer. I keep a beanfield rifle around, but the freezer is full before I ever get a chance to use it.

Merely trying to figure out, since I'm the idiot, why you would choose to run a Hugo at Darlington.........

When you are done reading this post come back to that first sentence to refresh your memory on my intial point to begin with.

Your safety argument against rifles is as lame, nearly word for word, as every other uninformed idiot that tries to make that case.....but that's my opinion, you are the obvious Expert.

I mentioned dirt, and backstop, as useful eufonisms that an N.C. mountain hick as yourself could relate to....guess I should have used "ground", and "hill", instead. The Virginians I lived and hunted with have a clear understanding of putting dirt behind it, maybe they are a tad more mountain hickish than you.

If you'd rather choose the obvious shortcomings of a 20 gauge or a 12 gauge slug gun over the obvious nuances of a .243 or a 7-08, considering such things such as accuracy and recoil, in a Rifle Allowed area, then be my guest....but that doesn't make you the smarter one because you "won" the argument.

As far as ME being the "self rightous idiot" here, I'm not the one who has never BT/DT much between the two of us...nor am I insisting upon my own stupidity upon the WWW. I happen to live on the fringe of that non rifle county and do hunt my property quite successfully with handgun and muzzleloader during "gun" season. As stated earlier, my wife uses the 20 gauge slug gun, which happens to be the only one in the house. The one and only deer I myself have killed with that firearm was a venture of R&D with that particular brand of slug....to see if it would work as good or better than her standard, it did.

When she hunts with me just up the road a quarter mile, in the next county over, she totes a .243. She's pretty hip on running a cup car on a super speedway......and knowing the benifits of such.

Asking questions is one thing, but being a moron about the answers you get is quite another. By all means buy a shotgun and hunt happy with it....you'll be the safest tree dweller in your subdivision.

Workin' on that Buck Fever problem would do yourself a lot favors tho'........

I saw it happen twice this year in Iowa and it was scary both times.

The first was on a small yearling a guy shot with a Foster type slug about 100 yards from me and two other guys. He didn't know we were on the other side of the knoll from him and he shot the deer at an angle away from us, but still angling in our direction and when the bullet came out of the deer it whistled high above our heads(ricocheted our direction, but luckily high). I admit, he shouldn't have taken the shot and I personally wouldn't have, but he did and couldn't even see us over the small knoll. It was an eerie feeling to say the least.

Then the next hunt was on a 40 acre patch of woods where two guys and I were on one side and another couple of hunters were to our left at a diagonal(we were on the South side of the block and they were on the West side). One of the guys on the West side of the block fired at a buck in the middle of the block and the foster slug ricocheted off of a tree and blew the dirt up 15 yards to my right inbetween another hunter and I. Very eerie feeling to say the least.

I've done limited shotgun hunting and tons of rifle hunting and that's the only two instances that I've had a ricochet come close by. I would rather hunt with rifles anyday over slugs.

I'm not a big fan of having several guys in one area while hunting, but that was the way the guys had hunted for decades where we were invited, so we went along. I killed my buck while still hunting in a corn field with my mler on that trip, by far my prefered method of hunting. That said, we did see some bruisers while doing the "drive" type hunts.

Have a Good One,

Reloader7RM

I have not won any argument here nor am I trying. WW hijacked this post like a freaking terrorist. Immediately jumped on my post about his precise marksmanship and 125 yeard head shots and insinuated that I am wreckless and don't put dirt behind a shot. Can't explain why a TSX couldn't ricochet and go farther than a slug, so he jumps on my case of buck fever.

I agree, that I do need to work on that. But I like the fact that I still get excited about hunting and seeing a big buck. I only missed once because of that, but it was a darn big antlered buck. Would a fast follow up shot helped? That's the kind of stuff stuff from slug users that would be nice to hear about. Not about physcis, or running a Hugo at Darlington.

I am asking about running a Hugo at Darlington becuase I want to know from other people that do this (whether by choice or by law) what are their opinions, preferences and experinces with type of shotgun, scope or iron sights, follow up shots and whether or not in the end they still prefer a using a slug gun from a tree stand over thier bolt rifle.

Every reply here, except WW's continuing rant, has been both appreciated and very helpful. They even brought up stuff I would not have thought about (like a 20 ga slug is going to be harder to find in local stores and probably kick more than a 12 ga).

Why would I start an argument here or anywhere about a subject I have no experience with?

Anyone who hasn't heard a foster slug whistle over head in a shotgun only area, has never much hunted in a shotgun only area.

Not everyone either, lays out the coin for the "rifle" type slugs and instead chooses the foster type because they are cheaper.

$12 to $20 for five shots vs. a box of plain old remington fosters for a quarter of that makes huge sense to the average econo hunter.

If that weren't the case then every gunshop in the land wouldn't be running slug sales year afer year along with their Mosberg pumpgun sales.....

Your inability to grasp the obvious is what's amazing.....

Partly because you come on a website asking opinions and advice but can't like some of the answers you get. Maybe you desired to have everyone follow your thread with puppy dog eyes and tails wagging, but that's not gonna happen here. Here you will always get an opinion that is not what you want to hear...

Personally I've never rattled myself by looking at a deer so I can't know your pain. I've also been in a tree stand or two and can't remember ever getting scared being up there, or getting scared about falling out if I shoot a gun. I've never launched a bullet at a cabin, or a cow, or a car...so I can't know exactly what you are talking about there either. The last place I'd choose to hunt is where I can hear kids playing in the distance, that just doesn't add up to me to be a good situation whether I'm using a rifle OR a shotgun.

My advice, that you so willingly refuse to read, is to forget the shotgun thing and source a rifle in a weight and chambering that you can do the job with....since you are in a rifle area. Find a place in your locale where you need not worry about people playing in the "woods", and start looking at deer until it doesn't bother you anymore to look at them......

Per using a rifle, you'll benifit from a more accurate hunting implement, less recoil, less chance of an accident occuring, and less chance of wounding an animal.

You can heed that or not as it makes no difference to me at all, you have tho', been led to water...........

I find the exact opposite...

Affixed to the receiver is optimal. Using another barrel for birds etc, the cantilever is the ticket.

Guys, thanks again for the input.

I still don't know why WW keeps ranting here. I don't mind hearing that I should forget the shotgun and slug idea and the reasons why. That's why I asked what users thought in the first place. If the general reply is it makes no sense to try it / use it if you don't have to, that is good to hear. Saves money. That is a good thing. What's wrong with hearing that?

I never said one thing about being scared in a stand. I do respect them and am cautious when up there. I don't hunt where children play, 50 acres is a good area to hunt, but not enough to totally block the sound of neighbors. Never said anything about recoil being an issue for me either.

Professor WW, acts like we all should follow his advice, ignoring every other opinion expressed here. When I stop getting excited about hunting and seeing a nice buck, then I will stop hunting. I saw another of WW's post about a his REM Ultra Mag. Why would you need a Rem Ultra Mag to hunt deer in VA? Guess a TSX from that drops right to the ground after it exits a deer? Not a good bullet for deer hunting IMO. They don't offer much expansion on deer. The core lockt's I loaded do a much better job.

Bullshitt like that, coupled with your apparent inherent non ability to read the english language, is only going to get you more of the same, was hopin' that you might coulda figured that out 3 or 4 chapters ago.......



Show me azzhole, where I posted that I killed any deer with a 300 RUM. Having one, shooting one, doesn't mean I hunted deer with it, and if I did....WTF is it to you? Quite a few on this site have, and do just that.....



Wrong website dude, for slammin' TSX's as they are quite popular here with folks that actually go Outdoors and actually do kill stuff. You stumbled on the notion of making sure there was a bullet stopping feature of natural composition behind your victim so it surprises me none that you can't grasp the effects of a passed thru bullet and where it goes after exiting.....despite your college education.

Am startin' to wonder here, if you even know which end the bullet comes out of.....

So as I've already tried to say a couple of other times, and it really hasn't sunk in yet, run a slug gun if it tickles your short hairs as noone here really give a [bleep] what you do in your treestand.

Post a pic tho', when you finally overcome your fears and kill something, we'd like to see it......

Who is slammin TSX's? I stated earlier I loaded them when I hunted CO and had complete confidence. TSX's are one of the most accurate bullets I have loaded so far. I used those TSX's I loaded for CO elk hunt on whitetail that fall. They drove right through the Whitetail with small exit holes. I have used other bullets on whitetail that seem to kill quicker. I doubt saying that is going to rub folks wrong that use TSX's.

Hopefully, I will get a chance to hunt out west again. The TSX is the bullet I will use with confidence. I have seen what they can do on big game and how accurate they can be.

Why the cuzzing now? Why call me an azzhole, while hiding behind a computer, for asking questions about deer hunting with a shotgun? I think you enjoy giving opinion and then attitude as if it makes you a better person. I don't care what you shoot. Just don't attack me and insinuate I don't put ground behind game and then rant about slug ricochet, as if the potential for a premium spitzer bullet going well over 3000 fps from a high power rifle can't do the same.

I do appreciate your opinion that it's better to save the money and keep shooting what I have, since buying a shotgun in your opnion isn't needed. I also received great opinions about what to try and why in case I want to buy and try a slug gun. If I go that route, the advice learned here will help and save some money too.

I can't believe you don't understand that, understand that other people with as much experience on the particular subject as you might have a different opinion, or appreciate that a website like this gives people a chance to learn about something new to them. You need to calm down with your high and mighty approach.

Well then, you've got it all figured out.....Kudos.

to whom it may concern, go have a beer, rub one out, releve some tension, then come talk!

What?

This discussion wasn't boring enough for you that you had to add your own special brand of stupid?

Finding the right slugs is key - you have to try a bunch of different ones to find what it shoots best. Rifled barrels require sabot slugs, which can be very expensive.

Last summer I bought my son a 20-gauge 870 Youth model with a fully rifled barrel. It shot some brands of sabot slugs very well. Even with all of my connections, the best price I could swing on slugs was $13.00 for a five-shot box. That's $2.60 PER ROUND. I like for the kid and I to shoot a lot before Opening Day, but I'm not going to spend his college tuition on the ammo, so I've been looking for a smoothbore gun with rifle sights.

A few weeks ago, I found one and I traded the little Remington away without a second thought.


Okie John

Whizzing contest notwithstanding.....there is a difference between most 20 gauge slug guns and 12 gauge....most of the 20 gauge slug bbls I have seen ( I did do a lot of diggin on this subject), have a 1:28 twist, almost ALL of the 12 gauge bbls have SLOWER twist rates, 1:32 or slower..

If I were going to buy a slug gun, it would be a 20 gauge for the above reason and the fact that they shoot the same velocity as the 12 gauge (sabot round). If you shoot a sabot round, the 12 gauge buys you nothing except for a better chance it won't shoot as good as the same/same in a 20 gauge.

You will get close to 2000 fps in a sabot 12 or 20 gauge round, for my money, I'd take the faster twist rate.

Essentially you have the same performance as a 50 cal smoke pole, shooting a 250 grain sabot using 150 equiv load. Which BTW also has a 1:28 twist rate. My Omega is shooting 1950FPS with a (2) 777 magnum pellets, 250 shock wave and with it's 1:28 twist, it shoots just a tad over 1" @ 100. It IS a 200 yard gun, and so would a similar slug gun in 20 gauge.

Ok, back to the whizzing contest boys......

Tony

Best option:

Get a muzzleloader, and you get better accuracy, better range, and better options (as well as the ML season) for deer, and get a scattergun for birds.

Don't try to hunt either, with the other. It can work, but why?