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What's the difference between a Brownells accurizing kit and the gel accurizing kit.

The gel is a thicker viscosity and most people find it a bit easier to work with because it isn't running and dripping all over the place. Other than that the two products are virtually the same in the end result.

Thanks.

Yep. The gel is like working with peanut butter while the regular stuff is like chocolate syrup. Should I have posted this in the Cooking section?

RH

Give devcon plastic steel a try it the best I have seen

I have used several types/brands of epoxy, and to say that one is the "best" depends on the application. As others have mentioned, texture and viscosity are two significant characteristics. Of course, personal preference is important. Acraglas Gel is not my first choice for a bedding compound. I find it more like taffy than peanut butter, sticky, and it is a bit softer than others because it is filled with nylon particles. Devcon steel has a gritty, grainy feel to it, and may rust under some circumstances. For a steel filled bedding compound, Brownell's Steel Bed is my preference. It's smoother than Devcon, and it may be stainless, but I'm not sure. Devcon aluminum putty is another good bedding compound, but I don't know how well it holds up to heavy recoil. It used to be very popular with the benchrest crowd. For a general nice handling bedding compound, Marine-Tex grey is good stuff. Original Acraglas is too runny for general bedding, but that very characteristic makes it useful for applications such as a final skim coat. It seems to harden well in thin layers, something that is not the case with all epoxies. You can also customize its texture and color by adding your own fillers and dyes.

Epoxy - the greatest invention since sliced bread and canned beer.

Paul

I have started to like Brownells Steel-Bed also due mainly to the one-to-one mixing ratio.

Devcon also sells their product with stainless steel particles in it if you're worried about rust forming.

Epoxies are funny stuff sometimes. The higher tech stuff is not designed for most of us mortals since the mixing ratios are EXTREMELY critical to strength. Brownells has done extensive tests and studies over the years and all of their Acra products are designed to be less critical in that area.

You can't really go wrong using any of Brownells Acra products, Devcon liquids or putty, or Marine Tec.

You would be smart to stay away from the Home Depot stuff like JB Weld...IMO. I know guys who have used it, but based on my own tests I won't. It's brittle, it shrinks, and it's far more susceptible to crumbling than the above named products.

Rick, looks like we're pretty much in agreement.

I'm not familiar with tests that Brownell has done, but it's always been my understanding (and experience) that original Acraglas is pretty fussy about precise mix ratios. I always try to follow the manufacturer's instructions to the letter. Since I often use small quantities of Acraglas, and because it's so danged expensive, I usually measure it out with syringes absent the needle. Very accurate and no waste.

You can also make leftover mixed epoxy last awhile by putting it in the freezer, although it will still harden, just slowly. A day or two seems to be the max of its useful life.

Paul

That's why I said that sometimes epoxy is funny stuff.

Some brands dictate that you measure by volume...others are by weight.

As far as I know, Brownells Acra products are about the only ones designed specifically for bedding rifles. Not to say the others don't do just as good a job...but it's always nice to know that you can call Brownells about the stuff and get specific answers as they relate to bedding a rifle. Try doing that with Devcon or Marine Tec.

My gunsmith only uses Devcon,it's get hard as steel when it completely cures.

Devcon has always been my favorite...but I'm slowly turning towards Brownells Steel-Bed because of the easier mixing ratios.

I use Devcon 5 min epoxy to secure the pillars prior to bedding.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but when I've observed a gunsmith hook his thumbs in his suspenders and announce "Ah use Brand X in my shop, exclusively", I usually go elsewhere. It suggests to me that the man isn't particularly flexible or innovative, and he's trying to justify himself by suggesting to the customer that his way is the best or only way. In my experience, the best gunsmiths are inveterate experimenters, with a variety of tools and materials in their shops.

And I'm not clear on why "hard as steel" should be a criterion for a bedding compound. If that were the case, top gunsmiths would be milling bedding blocks out of solid steel. Plus, some metal filled epoxies have a tendency to chip or "sugar".

I'm not a gunsmith, but one time, in what turned out to be an expensive experiment, I bedded a rifle in Devcon titanium putty. It worked well, and talk about hard! My goal was to save a bit of weight, but my sense is that much of the weight of the bedding compound comes from the epoxy base, not just the metal fill. It didn't seem all that light. I also found that the titanium had a rather short working time, less than I've experienced with Devcon steel and aluminum putties. An expensive learning experience!

As an aside, there's a well-respected accuracy gunsmith in this area who charges extra to add a skim coat to a bedding job. IMO, this is wrong. All epoxies shrink, some more than others. The main purpose of a skim coat is to produce a close fit after the main bedding has cured. A gunsmith should offer only top quality in a functional area like bedding. Again, JMO.

Paul

Paul,

"Properly" bedding a rifle is not quite as simple as many would have you believe it is. There are many factors involved and the material being used is but one of them. IMO, proper technique is far more important than what particular bedding material is used.

Some of the poor techniques that can result in a less than satisfactory job no matter what brand is used (not in any particular order.):

1. Poor preparation of the stock that gives an uneven base for the epoxy resulting in thin and thick spots in the critical bearing areas.

2. Poor mixing of the epoxy. To include inaccurate mixing ratios, contamination of the epoxy, introduction of air bubbles from over-eager mixing, etc.

3. Too much, too little, or uneven compression used on the barreled receiver when the epoxy is setting.

4. Not leveling the stock in your vice. (Gravity Works!)

5. Not allowing the epoxy time to fully cure.

6. Not testing the bedding job afterwards with a dial indicator or an "educated hand" while loosening and tightening the guard screws and looking for movement of the barreled action.

I'm sure others could add to this list, but these are just some of the things I have been guilty of myself in the past while learning and that I have seen in others work that has come into my shop.

In addition to all of the above you can also run into problems when your bedding job includes pillars if you don't know what to look out for. The store bought pillars that have the radius pre-cut for round bottom receivers will NEVER fit all receivers properly. It is also real easy to get pillars cocked off to one side or the other which results in a less than even compression surface for the receiver and bottom metal.

All of these pitfalls are preventable...but a guy has to understand that there is a bit more to the job than just hogging out some stock material, whipping up some epoxy and slopping it in the stock, and sticking the barreled action into the stock overnight.

As for "skim-bedding" I totally agree with you if the smith is charging extra to skim bed (fix) his own bedding job. I usually recommend skim bedding those stocks that come with the aluminum bedding blocks since the blocks seldom (if ever) fit the receiver the way they need to.

Rick,

An excellent, informative summary. Your candor about learning through experience speaks well for your professionalism.

Bedding is sorta like scope mounting - not as simple as it may seem, with differences in quality of results dependent on how it is done and attention to details.

Paul

Anyone who has never screwed something up has never done much.

I was once told that the difference between a professional and an amateur is that the professional has learned how to fix/hide his mistakes.

Bedding rifles and installing scopes isn't some esoteric skill but it does take a bit of learning and understanding of what it is you are trying to accomplish.

Just a personal pet-peeve of mine...but the comment that it's "just" a hunting rifle drives me right up the wall. Bedding and scope mounting, IMO, should be done with the same care and attention to detail no matter what the rifle is to be used for so the owner is confident that the rifle is giving him all that it's capable of.

After all...shooting is allot more fun it the bullets are going where you intended them to go.

Rick:

Is there a distributer or company that sells all of the Devcon Epoxy?

Hardware stores around here carry it, but only in the 5 minute stuff. No steel or aluminum filler.

I usually buy mine at my local Rutland tool supply, but Brownells also carries it.

If you go to their web site they have a link to distributors, and also allot of good info about epoxies with spec sheets, etc.

http://www.devcon.com/

1234567,
Good point in bringing up the Devcon sold at most of the hardware stores. It is not the same as the high end devcon stuff, it will show significantly more compression and brittleness.

Rick,
What problems do you see with JB weld? It was recommended by Darrell Holland and he thinks enough of it to package it with his bedding kits. I have bedded several rifles with it (about a dozen) and not run into any problems. I have/had the tech specs on it somewhere and it compared very favorably with the better Devcon products.

As you've seen, Devcon is a big company with various product lines. The consumer-type products that you find in hardware stores are not the same as the industrial grade epoxies used in gun work.

The last time I bought Devcon (the titanium adventure) I found it at Grainger Supply. If you live in or near a city of any size, there might be an industrial supply company that carries such things. Otherwise, as Rick said, you should be able to mail order it. Last time I looked, Brownell's carries maybe one or two of the Devcon epoxies, but not a variety.

Like I said before, and the way Rick is leaning, if I wanted a steel-based bedding compound these days I'd look no further than Brownell's Steel-Bed.

Paul

I've been doing business with Brownells for over 40 years and one of the main reasons is because of their incredible customer service and knowledgeable/helpful tech people. They have been a tremendous help to me over the years whenever I had a problem or stupid question I needed answered. It's just nice to have people who understand firearms on the other end of the line and have actually done what you're having a problem with and can give you some handy pointers.

With their variety of Acra products and more recently the Steel Bed I really don't think there is much need to go elsewhere. They will have a product that will be suitable for just about anything and everything a smith would use epoxy for be it bedding or just around the shop on holding jigs and fixtures.