Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Gosh how bad does a .458 Win mag hurt?

Just curious about the recoil. I bet it is pretty stout.. Any personal experiences?

As much or as little as you want it to. Handloading helps but th recoil from 500gr loads is there. To put it in perspective, though, I would rather shoot a CZ 550 458 Win Mag with 500gr loads than a Mossberg 835 with 3.5" magnums. Stock design, rifle weight and the recoil pad make a big difference.

My #1H is stout with 500 gr factory loads. But a good pad and sufficient rifle weight goes a long way to mitigating recoil.

BigUgly, do you use your No 1H in your neck of the woods?? Reason being, heavy hunting coats tend to help absorb recoil. Much better than the shirt you wore on your African expedtion.

I have a Ruger 458 Lott with a limbsaver and it isn't too bad shooting the 500 grain A-frames. I'd rather shoot it than my Rem 700 CDL in 300 RUM. It just seems to me that the big bores like the 458 Lott and 416 Rigby have a good size 'shove' but the fast magnums like the 300 RUM seem to pop quite a bit more. A sharper recoil that is not very pleasant.

stock fit aside, recoil velocity makes a big difference IMO.

a 458 WM or a 470 NE is much more pleasant to me than a 416 Rigby or a 458 Lott over 6-10 rounds.


ymmv

SotexasH,
I had an 8.5 lb Model 70 in 458 Magnum that I thought kicked less than my Model 37 Ithaca pump with slugs.
Neither of these would be my first chice for a long bench rest session.
Once a customer came into the gunshop and pulled back his shirt just enough to show us a huge bruise on his shoulder.
He was getting ready for an elephant hunt and the gun fired before he had it up tight to his shoulder. It looked painful.
If you shoot them standing up, it is very similar to a 12 gauge magnum.

I think the hardest kicking rifle I ever shot has been a 300 weatherby magnum. Had to have it in my early 20's just because..In Minnesota its mostly woods hunting so not many long shots. Kept it a couple of years.. Borrowed it out and then traded for something else.. I didn't like my 7mm rem mag in a 6 pound savage gun either but really wasn't to stiff.

The .458 will recoil harder as pressure and velocity increases which, as a statement is too simplistic to generate value, as all cartridges will do same.

What I need to convey is that 100fps can have impact on recoil perception with the .458 much more, than most other cartridges.

I have owned and used a number of Model 70's in .458, tested several others with the largest and heaviest being the BRNO/CZ's which come is a range oif stock designs from classic to monte-carlo to Bavarian.

The Bavarian CZ looks terrible to my eye, but recoils the least and generates the highest velocities because of the longer barrel. Another comment here is necessary as I find that the longer barrel length in this caliber has greater influence per inch that it should on paper.

Currently, I own both a .460 Weatherby and a Model 70 in .458. I never considered punching the model 70 out to a LOTT chambering as I never had a problem achieving full factory specs from the basic case length in any rifle I ever used. Additionally, this light rifle does not need more recoil which is no fun no matter how much experience you have.

The .458 can be handloaded to your own recoil tollerence. That is the good news. You need to stop at that level to encourage you to shoot it more often as a .458 that is fired once a year is useless to you.

JW

WHAT HE SAID!

It doesn't hurt if you do this:

1. First, become proficient with some lesser caliber. It does not matter which one.

2. Mount the .458 scope as far forward as you can without vignetting, and use one with good eye relief. A Leupold 1.5--5 works fine.

3. When sighting in from the bench, sit reasonably upright and grasp the rifle hard with both hands. Use shoulder padding. I wear a heavy shooting coat (Creedmore) plus a small towel folded inside where the shoulder is. No need to shoot very much off the bench.

4. All other practice should be from field positions, mostly offhand. Again, grasp tightly with both hands, pull the rifle tightly into your shoulder, and clamp down with your cheek (this assumes the stock is decent and straight. I use a Model 70 with the scope mounts as low as possible.) By the way, to see if your rifle "fits," stare at an object in your basement, close your eyes, and bring the rifle to firing position. You should be looking through the scope at the object. Most people mount scopes too high and use csopes which are too large.

5. Don't shoot more than about 20 full power loads at the range. By that I mean 500 grain bullets at 2200 or 450 grain bullets at 2250. Contrary to what you may have read, it is not difficult to get these velocities from a 23" or 24" barrel.

6. If you want to practice a lot, load up some 350 grain Hornadys at 2200 fps or so. Don't worry about the zero or trajectory differences. Shoot 'em at 50 feet. Load the rifle to maximum capacity (4 shots in my case) and fire all of them, from offhand, as fast as you resonably can.

7. Dry fire a lot, in your basement. Take the rifle in hand, pick out some object, bring the rifle up and "fire" at it.

8. Don't waste time and money finding the best powder. It's AA2230.

9. Don't trust any one loading manual. Go buy the one which has only the .458 Magnum, and includes copies of the .458 pages from 8 or 9 manuals. You will notice that there is a big difference in what different makers claim is the maximum load for 500 grain bullets. Don't trust the oddball high ones. I found one grain under the Hornady maximum downright dangerous, at least in my rifle. I've found Hornady a lot more accurate for more common calibers. CHRONOGRAPH your loads!

By the way, .458s can be very accurate. On one occasion mine shot a 1" 3-shot group at 100 yards with 450 grain North Fork solids, and a little wider with 450 grain TSXs or Barnes 450 or 500 grain solids. Will it do that all day? You don't shoot such a rifle from the bench all day. Trying to find "the most accurate load" is pointless.

Nope, I didn't even bring the 458 up when I moved, though I visit it when I go on vacation. I've only ever shot it in t-shirts and the like, maybe even a light jacket. Shooting it while wearing a parka would be somewhat gentler, but I'd have to shorten the stock to make up for the extra layers of clothes.

The key is to not spend to much time shooting it off the bench. Shooting off sticks is another great way to mitigate recoil. When I was working up loads for my 416 Rigby I did some off the bench (often wearing no kidding winter gear), and then went south and shot off a hay bale tipped on end.

The bale was WAY better than the bench.

The first one I ever fired, with factory loads, was a Whitworth Express which weighted about 7 pounds. It wasn't pleasant.

Another one, an older Browning, at about 10 1/2 pounds wasn't bad at all. Maybe a little more than a normal weight .300 Wby.

A .460 Wby? You have to experience it to believe it.

I have no problem with the 458 Win. recoil, none at all..I do have a little problem with anything larger in that I have to mentally prepare myself to shoot them, and I don't like that so I shoot all my dangerous game with the .40 calibers.

Indy, that was an EXCELLENT post.. Best I 've read re: the .458WM in years..

Thanks for the powder clue, btw.. I haven't loaded any for my .458 yet and was wondering where to start, powder-wise..

Best to you..

I subscribe wholeheartedly to everything Indy has written except for one point: My CZ 550 in 458 Win has a British style stock--not American or Bavarian--and I much prefer it to either of those, plus my ring mounts are medium high. The balance of the rifle, it's weight and fit are key to managing "felt" recoil. With it's 25" tube it's easy to pass 2200 fps with 500-grainers. Even 2300 fps is attainable. Mine will be primarily used in North America (I've written a manual on this), so I'll use only a couple of loads for moose and bear: a 350-grain TSX at 2750 fps (shoots less than MOA) and a 465-grain hardcast at 2260 fps.I agree; offhand it's about the same as a stiff magnum load in a 12-guage.

I think that 350gn TSX is a very "under considered" bullet for the .458. Barnes sent me some to play with and I worked out a load of 75gn using H 4198 that punches them through the one hole. Quite astounding accuracy though not unusual with the .458.

My next step is to load a few more and determine coinsistency in that accuracy as anyone can shoot a good group now and then. My standard loads have to shoot well with consistency and reliability, all the time. I need to trust a .458 load.

I like the idea of the 350gn as I used to 400gn X for my light loads in this caliber for manay years and the 350gn version shoots just as flat(er) and is a little easier to shoot for all round use, allow the move up to the 450gn TSX for anything dangerous using the same rifle.

I always perferred the .458 over the .375 as a 1 rifle carry.



JW

JW

I agree with everything you've said. I've not shot a one-hole group with mine yet, but my load with RL-7 is very, very consistent. When I began to shoot that load, I thought maybe it was a fluke, but not so. It turned out to be sub-MOA every time I shot it. I'll be going to the range tomorrow to shoot a few more at 300 yards as I intend to carry that rifle for moose hunting this October if gas prices permit--way up in N. Ontario (1600kms).

And, may I thank you for you excellent piece in an Aussie mag (forget name)on the BRNO 458 (same basic gun). I learned something that was not in the literature that came with my CZ550: how to empty the chamber of a live round without taking off the safety! My booklet said nothing about it! And the dealer didn't either! I don't like to open the bolt to extract a cartridge if I have to disengage the safety first.

I love my CZ. It has beautiful wood and I adjusted the trigger so the "set" feature is de-activated, and it breaks cleanly at 2.7 lbs. And thanks for your other comments elsewhere in these treads that make uncommon sense.

CZ

I did that CZ550 .458 review for "Australian Shooter" magazine. I did not know it was distributed overseas so I appreciate your feedback.

John

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Amen.....