Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Seeking feedback and help on a bigbore handgun for hunting/backup...

"A man's handgun?" A single-shot is a fool's handgun, in the applications we're discussing. I have a Contender with seven barrels, but I wouldn't be caught dead with any single-shot handgun as a back-up piece.

Or to put it another way -- I'd expect to be caught dead, sooner or later, if I were fool enough to count on a single-shot (two-handed) handgun as my back-up piece in a sticky situation.

Question: how many who've commented here have had to use a back-up handgun on a dangerous animal? I have -- more than once.

In 1960, my .44 Magnum Blackhawk was enough to put down a bull moose that attacked my wife. My .44 Magnum Redhawk (1981) was enough for one Keith bullet to put out the lights for a 350-plus-pound wild boar. I fired two warning bullets close over the head of the moose but then had to go for the brain. Couldn't've gotten those rounds off fast enough with a single-shot handgun, Fortunately, one warning shot from the Blackhawk was enough to make a bear turn and lope for the nearest cover (Alaska, 1959). I didn't dare think that only one bullet would be enough for the boar -- was of course pleased that it was enough -- but glad too that I'd been well equipped in case it hadn't been enough.

Doc no need to get testy. you are the only person I have ever heard of that really used a backup pistol. tom

Ken...



I bow to real life experience...



44. Magnum Redhawk,...or... 45 Colt Redhawk....or .....44 Magnum Taurus......or.....44 Magnum Smith and Wessson..........?

....or... what about those .480 Taurus's?, that looks like a beefy slik handgun.



If it doesn't have the recoil from hell, then I could master shooting it well.



I dunno, I'll probably look for the best deal that comes along on a bigbore, then roll with it............:)

...and (everyones eat'n dinner or tired of my thread so I'm gonna keep writting)

...That Raging Bull in .480 6.5" I heard is a real good shooter. Comfortable recoil, and accurate. But it's from Brazil.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I wonder how the triggers are on em?, I wonder how strong they are.

They look nice, and would fill my needs for backup/hunting power, but I HATE buying cheap stuff especially fireamrs (which I don't).

... any owners choose to confess..............................<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Marlin gotta say go with the Ruger. Just personal preference from shootin them for more than 30 years. 45 colt wil do what you need. I shot a 2000lb charolais bull at about 10 yds that was intent on doing me bodily harm. put that slug between his eyes and he didn't tear up anymore horses,dogs or pickups.

??????????????

Color me puzzled.

I don't understand why straight, plain talk makes you call me "testy" when I'm not. If I were, you wouldn't have to interpret the tone of my posting. It'd be clear to everybody for two threads on either side of this one that I were pist.

I own seven of the new Taurus revolvers and have just ordered the eighth. All seven and the two that I've borrowed and returned came right out of the box with excellent triggers.

For a number of recent years (but not now) both S&W and Taurus were subsidiaries of the same parent company, and a lot of knowledge and technology flowed both ways. Also, I understand that a recent Taurus factory worker suggested a slight but significant modification in the trigger mechanism, which smoothed and lightened the pull.

Taurus now owns -- and makes guns in -- the modern Brazilian factory built there by Beretta to manufacture Berettas for military contracts. Thus this very old, very experienced company is making guns on the newest and best manufacturing equipment.

Two of my new Tauruses are .44 Magnums -- the Raging Bull with 8-3/8-inch barrel and the Silhouette with 12-inch barrel. I bought both because I could not persuade Taurus to make a Raging Bull with a 12-inch barrel. (I suggested calling that one the "Range Bull.") I haven't given-up the idea of rebarreling the Raging Bull with a 12-inch barrel. I like the Raging Bull's frame but would prefer the even longer barrel.

I've had a good number of handgunners try these Tauruses -- especially the triggers, which they all rated excellent. I ask 'em "What would you guess that I had to do, to get that trigger like that?" After they've guessed or "given up," I tell 'em -- "just took it out of the box it came in."

A carry gun for the field has to be both (a) powerful and (b) pleasant-shooting enough to encourage a lot of practice. The cartridges more powerful than the .44 Magnum are fierce enough to discourage or at least diminish practice. For most shooters, including most experienced handgunners, they promote more flinching than development of skill and accuracy. The .44 Magnum, in my experience, confirmed by most of the experienced handgunners I know, is the best big revolver cartridge for this blend of crucial criteria -- (a) adequate oomph for stopping big nasties and (b) easy-shooting enough not to be too unpleasant for adequate practice.

I've shot (with both hands) several big cartridges that made the same handguns with a .45-70 barrel feel almost like a .22 Long Rifle by comparison. I didn't flinch (hit what I aimed at), but none of those -- with all their whomp -- would be my choice for quick, short-notice shooting with only one hand.

You know Taurus offers a lifetime warrantee on all their guns whether you are the original owner or not............! Now that's a warrantee I like.



I think I've made up my mind.... Taurus "Raging Bull" 454 Casull 6.5" bbl in Stainless Matte finish.



My reasons, after all the great input from the forum members here are:



The feedback from owners has for the most part been excellent on all accounts... quality, accuracy, recoil, customer service.



I like the option of having the 454 power when needed, but I understand I can shoot 45 Colt if I clean the gun before going back to the 454.



This is a tremedous advantage, as I can work up in skill to master more power, and have tons of load options. Also, I like the idea of having a bigger cal. gun to be able to shoot comparable hot 44mg/45 Colt loads comfortably.



I wanted to go .45 Cal because of casting for other firearms such as the 45/70, 45 ACP, etc. I can use the molds for multiple uses like I do with the .358 (35 Rem., 357 mag, 38 special, .357 Sig).



Trigger and action smoothness has got to be there. I know I wouldn't be happy with beautiful Ruger, that had a dog for a trigger. All my firearms have great triggers except for my Mini-14, and that's gonna cost money to fix, but I love Ruger with a passion. My #1 300 win mag (circa 1978) has a perfect trigger, w/AAA wood, and is a sub-moa tack driver with Remington Core Lokt 150 grns right off WallyWorlds shelf. I haven't even bothered to reload for it yet.



Size and weight, is right in there, and it is a damn good looking peice except for the ugly red strip on the grip. Much like the Smith, I'd be rigth at home with using this baby.



Strong double locked up cylinder.



FA's out of my budget. S&W (my love) I'll save for an old 44. mag some day. Rugers trigger question... and some of them not shooting to well, equals extra cost- I don't want to deal with if I had to right now, no matter how awesome they are.



The warrantee... I can buy a nice used Bull, and be covered. Who besides Leupold does that?



Well that's that... until I run into a nice Ruger, that I can't pass up.



Happy New Year! all... and, it's my 12 year wedding aniversary today.



Marlinlover

E - btw I carry a backup while shaving or walking in the garden or going to buy gas. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

N

I generally carry one of my Ruger Bisley Vaqueros, with either 260 or 300 gr. JFPs ahead of a stiff load of 296. However- If I'm feeling like I need to carry extra horsepower for hogs in Texas, I break out the short-barrelled .454 Casull, with 300 gr. JFP's. It's heavier, but there's no doubt that whatever get hits well will stay down. Here in CO, it's not just cats and bears, but lately, pit bulls seem to be making a dent in the human population. Probably, the SW 1911 would suffice for the dogs.

A lot of practice is as important as the right choice of revolver, cartridge, and load.

The right kind of practice is the only kind to consider. The wrong kind of practice is as bad as none at all and maybe worse.

� You have to be able to grab the gun and shoot it accurately as a pure reflex.
This means wearing it in one carry rig as often as you wear anything other than your pajamas. Then you'll eventually become able to lay your hand on it without having to fumble for it.

� You must develop one or the other -- or both -- of two techniques for fast shooting that gives-up no accuracy for the sake of speed.
Practice both techniques. Ideally, master both. Start with either technique, but practice both until you've become good enough at both to determine which technique is better for you.

"From the hip" -- stand facing a target (paper plate, at first -- something smaller later -- clay "pigeons," say) at about ten yards. Hold the gun with both hands, with your elbows snug against your sides. Don't look at the gun. Stare fixedly at the target and concentrate on how you feel the gun pointing. Try to feel it pointing at the target -- and concentrate on how that feels. Fire a round and note which way and how far off it hits. Adjust the felt position of the gun to compensate (as well as you can guess by feel), concentrate on the new feel, and fire another round. Note the direction and distance of the miss. Adjust to compensate. Concentrate. Fire. Adjust. Fire. Adjust. And so on. When you find the right felt position that points the gun where you look, continue concentrating on that feel and firing repeatedly (not too fast) to imprint that feel on your lower brain.
Each new session will be a new beginning, but you'll make some progress anyway -- especially if you don't leave too long a hiatus between practice sessions.
When you've become the local Wild Bill Hickok for targets at that angle and distance, practice standing facing away from the target, then turning and firing as quickly as you can acquire the right feel. Again, each new session will be a new beginning, but you'll make some progress.

"Aimed" (pointed) quick fire: -- stand facing the same kind of target. Stare fixedly at it. Focus on the target. Don't look down at the gun. Grasp the gun with both hands (at first -- one-hand shooting will be a later step), ready to shoot. Concentrate on how the gun feels in your hand. Quickly bring the gun up to the line of sight from eyeball to target. Spend little or no time searching for a sight picture (in time, you want to be able to "point-shoot" with either a quick, unconscious aiming or complete independence of the sights and without even "sighting" down the barrel). Fire. Note the miss. Adjust with the gun held low (without looking at it) and concentrate on how it feels. Raise the gun to line-of-sight level and fire.
Again, advance this practice by standing facing away, turning, raising the gun, and firing.

By training your eye-body coordination to shoot without reliance on technology (sights, etc), you're preparing yourself to be able to shoot accurately, on a split-second stimulus, without having to waste time on thinking, deciding, aiming, etc. In the kind of situation that's most likely to require accurate use of a back-up carry piece, you may very well have no more thinking time than that seemingly long but really very short period between (a) the instant that your brain sounds the alarm and (b) the instant when you must shoot or suffer.

Ken,
Thanks for the primer--it is definately worth printing off. I find that after the technique is mastered, switching between different hand guns is not all that difficult; so I do most of my practicing with a .22. That is not to say the others are neglected--my 'truck gun' is a .357 mag. so I practice with it almost as much. Since the .454 Casull was obtained primarily as a back-up for dangerous field situations, practice with it is generally one-handed (my paws are somewhat oversized, and strong--probably due to all those holsteins I milked the old-fashion way back when). Reduced loads are used (45LC in .454 brass) for most practice, but each practice session ends with at least five full-powered field loads drawn and fired one at a time from various positions. My goal is to put each of these last five bullets into a 3-inch circle at 12 feet; and a 6-inch circle at 25 feet. Admittedly, I have a ways to go!. Steve

marlinlover

Specific to the Vaquero trigger, it breaks clean at 4lbs. I bought the pistol used several years ago. Someone had put a birdshead frame on it and it just had the right feel for me.

Howdy Ken

This is a combined comment regarding useage on dangerous game and shooting positions/practice that you posted later in the thread.

I've twice used my Vaquero (45 Colt/300gr XTP) in situations where I felt it was advised; both were black bear, one wounded by a rifle bullet. It did the job, although, I am sure there would have been similar results with other handguns in the same situations.

The natural pointing ability of the Vaquero was what initially attracted me to the revolver. I wanted a short barrel (4 5/8ths), something easy to carry if hiking or on horseback. During the actual shooting incidents, eventhough I practice a lot with this handgun, I was surprised by the stress and pleased that the Ruger was simple enough and I was familiar enough with it, that the shots came easy and were accurate once I got it out of the holster. I fire this handgun at the range weekly, about 50 rounds a session.

What was difficult was simply getting the Vaquero out of the holster (amazing how adreneline affects the process); I hadn't done but a few presentations, good enough to become used to the routine -- at least I thought so. Now, when I am at the range, I always draw from the holster and dry fire practice regularly at home.

Replicating the degree of stress present in these situations is challenging but my shooting buddy and I get together a few times a year, taking turns drawing and firing while the other is shouting or using a variety of innovative methods to try to confuse or distract the shooter. Our "instinctive" shooting has improved a lot as well. Probably the best instructive program for us, however, was a training session at Gunsite. It was money well spent.

Fine information Ken...

I'm gonna start practing with my .357 Sig first, then my 6" Model 66 stainless 357 magnum.

The when I get a 454 Casull, start with 45colt loads, then work up to the 454.

I like to hunt with my (Cabela's Rainsuede) Parka shell, and a large hunting vest (Cabela's guide vest orange camo) on the outside, if it's not raining, on the inside if it is.

I can carry binocs and gear, food and water easily, and still have mobility, and also be ready for changing conditions.

I find that a belt holster does not work with this setup, so what I need is a holster that postions the handgun between my knee and hip.

This way I can easily draw without anything in the way. I don't know if the Uncle Mikes people makes this, or I may have to make one myself.

This would be the place to draw from and practice for me.

Great post's everyone!

marlinlover,
I carry my casull in a cross-draw position on my left side on the belt. The bear spray is on my right. A cross-draw is easier for me when wearing heavier clothing than the other way. As I have never had to use either gun or spray, I cannot say the positions are 'field tested'. Steve

The cross draw may work with my setup...

where can I see one on the net?

I agree Ken. The contenders are so awkward that he would not be able to get at it when he really needs it. Plus, the guy is going to be carrying a rifle, where is he suppose to put the contender ? A revolver is the way to go.

Conrad

I have to disagree with you on the 12" barrel. It just makes the handgun harder to reach, carry and get into action. A 5"-6" barrel makes a lot more sense.

Also, I would use the garrette 44mag hammer head ammo for a backup gun if I needed it to deal with big beasties. Of course, your definition of a backup gun may be different than mine.

Conrad