Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Ranchers are not the elks friend or the Sportsman.

Hey Rimrock, good to see you're still above ground!

Dober

Bill,

Good to hear from you. Didn't know you were a member of the Campfire! Did you read Michael Scott's guest column in today's Bozeman Daily Chronicle titled "Cattlemen: Stick to what you know"?

Although it didn't address brucellosis per se, it is a hopeful sign that western governors will help fend off the heavy handed cattlemen and their friends.

Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help out. I tried to call Joe G the other day but Millie said he was out for a walk.

Steve Hunts

Pretty much, Dober, except for some minor septic problems.
Just way too busy, although I see you're talking about a Bozone barbecue or something, which I'd try to make.

Yepper, if you PM me your email I'll put you on the invite list, we'd love to have you grace us with your presents...

Dober

You're not a buffalo blaster by any chance, Hunts? ;-)

I see I still qualify as a "regular" hahaha and used to be, certainly. Almost staggeringly far back, before Al Gore even.
Through an incarnation or two pre-Rick, at least.

I think these internet discussions are finally coming into their own, especially combined with news sources, and it's really scaring the Old Guard badly. So they're lashing out with some pretty bizarre stuff.
Personally, I think we have WAY better suggestions for elk management in the Madison, but man, if we solve it all right here and now what's the mediator to do?
But wait, we could go fishing or something...

Bill,

Would much prefer to blast an elk this year, but who knows?

I did add my name to the damage roster for elk in 360 or 362(somewhere up there I hope). An eternal optimist me thinks.

BUZZH. You indeed have no concept of what it takes to make money in ranching.

Some of the best conservationist are indeed ranchers and if it were not for them a lot more elk would be dead from winter starvation.

If the kids don't want to continue ranching,I expect you think the older generation should just give thier land to some government agency so you can hunt elk on it.

Tell me, how many millions of dollars would you give away if you had no hiers to take over what you built up?

As for the leased land, blame the fat cats who cough up $8-$15 K to hunt on them. The outfitters and ranchers are only providing a supply to meet a greedy demand.

Why does anyone think that some one else should support thier recreation by coughing up income. I see no reason why any rancher or anyone else for that matter has to be a friend to wildlife it it takes money out of thier pocket.

I'd damn sure side with the ranchers before I would get in bed with the ones who promoted wolf reintroduction

My respectful answers are in red.

Saddlesore,

Stick to the topic.

So, let me get this straight...you want me to side with a bunch of ranchers and their associations to systematically destroy a 1 billion dollar industry (elk hunting, that doesnt include other recreational value of elk) because they cant keep their cattle brucellosis free?

I dont think I'll let the cattlemen run me over any longer, they can leave MY public wildlife alone.

Time for the ranchers to stand on their own two feet and quit taking from the hunters and taxpayers.

It is a whole lot easier to round up a bunch of snot licking infected cows and kill them off, than to try to kill the infected elk. Sheesh.....there sure are some great minds involved in this. I for one am DARN sick of the cattlemen running our national forests, big game, parks and economy. There are few things that irritate me more than sneaking into my favorite big game watering hole, only to find it all torn up and full of cow crap and stinking to high heavens with a bunch of fly bitten poopy butt cows wallering around in it, which have turned it into a mud hole. Stupid animals..LOL! Buffalo are heartier, healthier eating, great tasting and are pretty darn good at managing themselves. They are hell on fences though ;o)Flinch

The saddest fact is that most Rancher, landowners have the Brains that saddlesore has. They really believe that wildlife of any kind is either a cash cow, or should be eliminated. This just shows the mentality of cattlemen.

Its angus herds that have been vaccinated for bangs and still came down with it not roping stock and Montana has lost its bangs free status, one more animal tests positive and Wyoming loses its free status. Elk can give bangs to cattle in Wyoming&Idaho but not Montana? Sounds like someone doesnt like ranchers did they let their horse piss on your fire or just cause they wont let you hunt game on their property. Are you as open with your property or house as you want the rancher/farmer to be? danny

BigSky and Saddlesore , you are wasting your breath....it's been painfully obvious to me for some time that many urban based hunters really despise farmers , ranchers , and their way of livelihood .

It's very apparent to me why many western ranchers just lease out their places to the outfitters and their fat cat clients , rather than deal with local residents with bad attitudes......

Don't know anything about what goes on out west and it's none of my business as we've got our own problems here in WV. DEER DAMAGE PERMITS! Talk about the misuse of a program! I can only hope it's not as bad out where y'all are discussing.

til later

This whole thread sorta of sounds like the same argument that folks have about saving wild horses. It's the people who don't have to put up with them that want to tell others how to run thier property,.
I don't live in MT, but I imagine it is the same as it is here in CO.Very little bottom land, river land, lower elevation meadows that provide good winter habitat to wildlife is owned by the federal govt. Any trip into this country will show that all that good winter forage land is privately owned and controlled. Grazing leases are typicaly for summer grazing in national forest or BLM land,although some are year round. Recently, some of that land has been procured by the Nature Conservancy, RMEF, or tuned into Conservation easmennts. However, when compared to total acreage ,these plots are miniscule in scope.

Elk and other wildlife, have no concept of property boundaries and typically end up on the private deeded acreage to winter. SO you want the owners of these private lands to feed YOUR elk in the winter, but keep thier cows off your public land in the summer,all at thier expense

Now if some one has a beef (pun intended)about grazing leases, why don't they bid on them when they come up for renewal and get all those nasty cows off them. Or when some of these ranches come up for sale,why not buy them and turn them into public hunting preserves? Maybe you can go into cahoots with Ted Turner. Now there is a guy that has sure helped elk hunting. He got all the cows off his properties. Wonder how many elk hunters he lets on. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Talks cheap until,you have to dig into your pocket and put up your own gold.

It is clear that this problem is not one for a quick, easy solution by the sounds of many of the hot-heads on this thread. I, for one, want both the ranchers and the hunters to be happy with each other and happy with the deer and the elk roaming both the public and private lands. I hunt both public and private lands and would hate to see that restricted or eliminated any more than it already is. I am for public policy that would help out the ranchers, hunters, and the wild game.

Amen Rolly

I don't know if anyone remembers an organization that used to be around out west called Western Sportsman Association or not. But I remember my dad being a member and having access to all kinds of private lands for any type of hunting and fishing a guy could want. It was a nominal fee as my dad could afford to do so working at Safeway as a produce manager. I know the board went corrupt and that was the down fall of the association, but an organization like this would help bridge the gap between private and public. Plus, it also keeps the cost down to where anyone could afford it.

Then again, I could be living in a bygone era, but it seems all parties were happy with the arrangement. Most of my first hunting experiences were on these properties.

Just a thought...

Kelk. I rember that org. Around here the managers ran off with the funds for the leases. Now CO DOW is instituting a walk in program for big game besides the one they ahave for upland game. This year will be the first year for it.I believe it cost $40 and opens up private land that ranchers have sighned up for

I do remember the big shots tanking the organization. It was too bad. I had seen a little snippet about the DOW on trying the big game walk in access. Hadn't heard they were starting it already. Hopefully it grows in the coming years. I think the biggest thing we all want is plenty of opportunities without the headaches. I hunt exclusively on public. But I missed the days of WSA and being able to ask permission and maybe do a little work for a landowner for access. My dad used to do all his antelope hunting this way with a rancher out east of Calhan that had a ton of land. We used to hunt deer outside Ramah a lot too. I miss living in the Springs.