Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 5.56/223 LACKS PUNCH/knockdown??????

yeah! I kind of feel, that was a good bit of the truth, I get the same crap at the local range from guys that tell me my sellection in ELK hunting equipment needs work....Ive yet to lose an ELK I shot at, or have problems and Ive used everthing from a 6.5 swedish to a 45/70 ,and generally use a 340wby, but carry a 35 whelen or 358 win BLR almost as often, and the guys that are most vocal about the equipment choices might,...might have killed one elk or just know someone who did! and most of them swear you need a 7mm mag, 300 mag ETC. for the flat trajectory,...yet when I tell them in 39 years of hunting ELK Ive seen about 4-5 ELK out past 300 yards they look at me like Im INSANE! but then after hunting out of state for ELK most of my adult life,hunted with a group of obsessed ELK hunters, who spend all year waiting for ELK season,and having killed almost two dozen,personally in those 39 years (and passed on dozens more or allowed my partner to shoot them, as I was looking for something bigger, or trying to get a new guy his first ELK,) and having seen well over 90 plus killed by guys in our elk camp Im obviously without ANY experiance, while they know all the tricks

No surprising how it works out that way.

BMT

Plus one to that, its what I've been trying to say all along. When you talk to folks that are in the know, they have very few if any complaints. ....

all I've heard from the folks I talk to(Granted their abilities are probably well above the average joe's...) is that the round with 77 hpbts is a really good round.

Heres is my combat experince:





BMT

Psst Jim, the black helicopter guys do exists and they are on our side. Don't pass that around too much the conspiracy freaks will go nuts.<grin> LOL.

+2

...
And the 308s penetrate cover much better... but they are hard to use on Full auto with a combat rifle... but 3 round �burst�... well a heaver caliber is worth another look... IMO

IMO, the only real use for full auto is suppression. So, we can assume that for it to be effective from any rifle, the user would be in a supported position to lay down fire. What I'm getting at is, the recoil will affect less and be less influential for the only true role it fills -- at least, that's how I see it.
I'd take a semi-automatic M1A over a full-auto M4 any day.

TFF, thanks for the laugh.

All these "this one time at band camp" stories from someone's cousin's best friend's sister's boyfriend's uncle's half brother are fun, keep em comin. Sorry guys but I just have to laugh at some of this. Just remember the rifle and the ammo have gone through a lot of changes since the Nam but these discussions are entertaining none the less. Several posters on here have led some of you to the well, its up to you to drink, stay away from the cool-aid though. As far as I know, no one has come up with the perfect rifle/cartridge combination that will work perfectly in all situations, maybe someday, but the combination we have now works pretty good in most until that day arrives.


My first of many trips to the sandbox. Good thing I didn't know then how worthless my rifle and ammo was or I might have been scared.

+1 and to Jeff's post as well.....well said.

It was the M16 for me in 'Nam (USMC, '69-'71). No desk jockey here - 0311 ground pounder, all the way. Even with zero improvements at that time, my M16 ran nearly flawlessly (too much lubriplate.....not so good - not enough lubriplate....less good). As other's have suggested, the care we took with our weapons as individuals seemed to somewhat determine whose ran well and whose didn't. No doubt there were some individual weapons that Mr. Clean couldn't have made run reliably, but they were few and far between.

My current AR's are a joy to own and shoot. There have been some obvious changes that have made AR's more user friendly these days and have no doubt enhanced their reliability.

IME and IMHO........we carried what we were given and very few felt undergunned.

Thanks for your service, we do appreciate all of you, no matter what your MOS or where you're serving.

Be safe.........

Thanks for your service.

Are those M-16A2s?

Lord knows they don't actually work, I read it in Field and Strem . . . .

BMT

Those are A1's, picture was taken in 82.

Wow, that's way back.

Nice photo, tho'

BMT

Hmm......... an M4 is select fire.... an M1A is not. But an M14 is select fire... idea being you can choose which way you want to fire..... Don't see the idea of one being full (only...) and the other being semi(only...) an issue.

To ALL who served, my sincere thanks, regardless of weapon choice or opinion.

Jeff

Yep.

Bright Star?

What flash on the Beret?

Mike

The M4 is select with semi and burst the M4A1 is select with semi, full auto and no burst. The use of full auto is a suppression thing, it's why the SAW was developed in the first place.

Having used full, semi and burst I have to say without a T&E device accurate auto fire is near impossible by hand.

MFO Rotation #1 March-Sept 1982, I was a PV2. The Isrealis still occupied the Sinai when we arrived. I was in the 1/505 PIR, 82nd ABN DIV. The beret's are the MFO beret with their flash/patch.

As a former Air Force pharmacy officer, I like you did not see combat, but have always been interested in guns and ballistics. The 223( 5.56) is a good varmit and plinking round, but on a man sized or deer sized target I would feel much more comfortable with more diameter. The Swedes had a good thing with the 6.5mm and the Spanish with the 7mm, both sizes are far more effective than any 22. I think there is a move on to consider a cartridge called the 6.5 Grendel, which looks fairly good and could be an economical conversion for the military( if anything is economical for them)

I dunno folks kill truck loads of deer with no issues all day long with the 223... I've done a few on the long side of 500 with no issues, but of course its placement...

I like the 6.5 grendel but it won't do it, its single stack.. the 6.8 doens't impress me but if we switch I think that the 6.8 or it necked to 6mm or 6.5 mm on the same case would be what should happen.

That being said why not go to 7.62x39.....