Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game 225-gn Sierra Game King at a MV of 2450 fps... your opinion of terminal performance?

This bullet shoots very well from my .358. However it has a bit of a cloud around it for me. At least one campfire member reports poor expansion at .358 speeds, and in fact when I called Sierra they said that the bullet was designed for the Whelen and "might not open up well" at .358 speeds.

Any thought on the matter will be appreciated.

This is for deer. My thinking is... sheesh... even if it doesn't open up large, I'm still hitting them with a .35 caliber bullet; it's gotta work...

-jeff

I know they work on black bear and elk with that bullet at those speeds. Those bullets recoverd had expanded like a typical SGK. Have never shot a deer with this combo but it is sure to work. Just my milage.

It will work, may not be perfect, but it work.. Ask any stick and string guy. I use cast bullets in my .45 so expansion is not needed..

One way to see what expansionyour going to get, would be to shoot some media, water test, etc....

Sounds like you need some more work on that load development..

I did shoot them into some media a few years ago, when I was working up loads for this rifle initially. I shot them into wet phone books, along with a 225-gn Partition.

Total "wound" cavity length was not that different, with the Partition going maybe another inch. The sheer VOLUME of the cavity the Sierra made was astounding. The Sierra did shed it's jacket.

However, I'm not hunting phone books <g>. Any suggestions for a cheap, easy, media that might better show me how it might react, are appreciated.

The reason I am considering switching from ol' Faithful, the 200-gn Hornady, is that the Sierra's are really accurate in my rifle and, combined with their much better BC, they do a lot better at longer ranges. Which is an odd consideration for a .358, granted, but I've been shooting it out to 375 yards and the Sierra is flat-out deadly at that range, where the Hornady blows around too much in any little breeze.

Anyway, thanks, and keep it coming guys!

Shooting into water filled containers is easier but then there is no 'wound' to see after the shot. I do compare bullets however.

Thus if you are sure that the 200 gr Hornady is ideal for whatever game your talking about then see how much other bullets expand at range and how many cartons they penetrate.

You could set up cartons at say 200 yards or even more and then shoot one set of cartons with the 200 gr Hornady and the other with the 225 Sierra.

This is the kind of stuff that freaks me out a little about this bullet, however:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=702161

There's (15) reviews of it there. Lots of core seperations and a couple poor expansions.

But, I do come back around to this: I'm killing relatively small DEER here. As long as it does expand, I'm golden... I think.

-jeff

Heck Jeff, I think if they're accurate they'll do a good job. Deer aren't hard to kill and even the core does separate, I'm betting it'll still kill like lightning.

Jeff,
I would guess that even if they came apart on a close shot they would do plenty of damage so its not the close range performance you should question(of course you knew that)

So how would the 225 work at 350 yds? Well the next best thing to shooting 30 deer at that range is shooting wet paper at that range. If it were me I might try shooting a positive and negative control as well. A bullet that you expect to expand well and one that I suspect wouldn't like maybe the hornady 250g SP.


Have you played with MD's tac loads for the 200g hornady or the barnes 200 TSX? The added velocity MD demonstrated might help a bit with wind drift and drop. The 200g tsx seems particulary interesting but cost wise I might prefer the 200g hornady.

As far as I can tell none of the cartridges were .358 Wins or smaller but instead larger rounds. Link to 225 Sierra test

Nor were longer ranges mentioned.

I've shot the Sierra 225 SBTs in my Whelen on deer up to 2700 fps MV. Ranges were from 40-125 yds. They work very well and have held together. I haven't recovered any bullets, they've been pass throughs. This was the most accurate bullet I tried in my Whelen.

Jeff-my opinion, they'd be about model perfect and would take deer out with ease to about whatever range you wished.

Dober

Jeff,

If you are thinking about my story,I had problems with another 225 grain bullet,not a Sierra. I think the Sierra would work fine but have only shot them at paper.

Also I quit calling Sierra about bullet performance on game animals,if you talk to different guys there,you can get different opinions. You did your own tests and I'd say you got good results for a deer bullet,maybe iffy on a rhino but dandy on a deer.

Britt

Hey thanks everyone, I appreciate it.

My concern is that from the reviews on the Midway site, and from just info that's soaked into my skull over the last few years (that I've been paying attention to all things .35)... it seems like this bullet has a narrow window between "failed to expand" and "shed it's core"...

But DAMN they shoot good!

I may have solved the thing today. I took my .358 up, re-sighted in with some 225-gn Partitions I had loaded up, and then shot THAT at long range. It did just as well as the Sierra which is to say quite well; very reliable hits out to 375 yards, in a significant breeze no less.

It's interesting to run the numbers... even though the 200-gn Hornady starts out at 2640 fps, it has such a poor BC (.262 if I remember right) that the Nosler or Sierra passes it up real quick. In fact, the Nosler, with it's .450-ish BC (don't feel like going and looking these up again, but that's real close) is still carrying 1800 fps at 375 yards.

So maybe I'll rephrase the question that this thread asks, since some of my favorite 'Fire members, and .35 shooters, are here <g>. "Can you see any reason to use the Sierra, over the Partition? "

Pluses for the Partition are that it's also one heck of a bear load, and elk load... and it's GONNA penetrate, and with that thin front jacket it's gonna expand if anything will... one would think anyway.

As a side note I've never understood why the 225 Partition doesn't get much love from the .358 shooters.

As yet another side note, since so many of you shoot .358's, here's how the B&C reticle works with the 225 Partition (or Sierra) at 2500 fps:

100 yards- zero
250 yards- second crosshair
325 yards- third crosshair
375 yards- little "nub"

And one more final note... I forgot how hard it is to cram 50 grains of I4895 into a .358 case! Anyone use a drop tube for this? Seems like case capacity is always the problem with this cartridge...

-jeff

I should add, but I ran out of final notes there <g>, that I have killed one deer, a forkie buck, with the 225 Partition. It worked great, no complaints.

And one MORE funny thing... the Point of Impact for the 225 Sierra and 225 Partition, with identical powder charges and everthing else, is over 8 INCHES different, vertically at 100 yards!! How crazy is that?! This is obviously due to how it shoots, not because of one dropping more than the other. Wierd. It's by far the most difference I've seen with same-weight bullets.

And that, finally, IS the final note.

I was going to suggest the 225 Partition but seemed like you were getting the Sierra to shoot so well. If I remember correctly the Partition is not a BT but has a higher BC than the Sierra...I'd say if they shoot as well, go with the Partition, IMO, it's still a great design. The soft nose for expansion and the rear to guarantee penetration. The best of both worlds IMO.

Well, you already know my story, but I'll post it again.
Yes, the Sierra's shoot great! We've used them in 3 Whelen's and 2 .358's. All of the rifles loved them, with typical groups sub-moa. Everything shot with the Whelen's appeared to be hit very hard. Always signs of good expansion. The problem came from my brother's .358. He shot a whitetail buck at point blank range, probably less than 15 yards from his treestand. The shot hit the shoulder blade going in and angled down through and clipped a rib on the way out. He dug the bullet out of the ground and it looked like he could load it right back up. Other than the rifling grooves, the nose lead missing, plus a slight bend appearance, you really couldn't tell it had been shot. (no branches around, so it didn't tumble prior to hitting the deer)
The estimated impact velocity was around 2400fps.
This is only one incident and yes, the buck died quickly, but that was enough for the .358 users in our group to quit using the Sierra. They both switched to the 200 Hornady spire point, and it's worked perfectly.

Jeff, IMO, if you are shooting deer at extended range, you'll be asking for trouble with the Sierra.
That's my $0.02. I'll give ya change back if you'ld like.

Jeff: Why hunt with a bullet you have a question about? Use the Partition.

Sounds like you just want some one else to tell you what you already think/know. There isn't anything new about Sierra BT shedding the jacket.It is what they do.I'm not degradinging them I use them also. Everyone I have found to have a shredded jacket was found inside a dead animal.
Ypu might be overlooking something here. I'm not sure if Sierra makes a 225 gr RN in a 35 caliber,but I use a 220 gr RN in my .06 at about 2500 fps
I have killed elk well past 300 yds with them but regularly shoot much less than that and I have never put them on paper at 400yds.They perform and expand very well from 15 yds to 300 yds.

At 300 yds on paper ,I see no differnce in accuracy vs the Sierra 180 gr GK, although the trajectory is a might less due to two different loadings. Out to 300 yds I don't think the Ballistic Coeffeficent means beans.

Sometimes we over look the obvious when searching for the holy grail

Why are you insistent on trying to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse? The SGK isn't a great game bullet. You've seen core seperation in your own testing. The .358 is certainly not a good cartridge for shooting out to nearly 400 yards. Do you really need to be different that badly?

Get a good tool for the job. A .260, 7-08, or .308 with good bullets will do anything the .358 will do and so much more.

Boy ain't that last line the truth, in so many ways!

I do believe there is a roundnose Sierra. That's an interesting one.

While I am in agreement in general about the BC not mattering, in this case it really does. The BC of the Hornady is SO low, around .260 I believe, that even at a "mere" 300 yards it really moves around a lot more in any kind of breeze, compared to the 225 Partition or Sierra. I forget the BC on the Sierra; the Partition is up above .450 IIRC.

The accuracy of the dang Sierra is intoxicating... I was looking in my shop yesterday and found an old target... 5 of the 225's into .62" center to center at 100 yards. Damn! But I'm hearing enough bad stuff (thanks Teeder) that I just can't go there.